Monday, July 16, 2012

"Monica, Monica!"

A crowd of Egyptians in Alexandria pelted Hillary Clinton's motorcade with shoes and tomatoes today while reportedly chanting, "Monica, Monica", in reference to her husband's short-lived White House affair. Lulz.


56 comments:

   Lee C.  ―   U.S.A.     said...

 

Lynnette In Minnesota said...

Mean.

Bill was the one they should have been throwing shoes and other assorted rotten things at.

Lynnette In Minnesota said...

Dental Therapists Bridge Gap

Minnesota is the first state to license the midlevel providers, who span the divide between hygenists and dentists.

   Lee C.  ―   U.S.A.     said...

 
      "Mean."

Yeah, well, that appears to have been their point, and I mean their only point.  I saw this story yesterday, and have been looking since then for an explanation for what the demonstration was supposedly about, but I got no such explanation.
So far as I can tell they were long on attitude and way short on having any real point.
Perhaps this is supposed to be the Obama administration's reward for its political support of their revolution?

   Lee C.  ―   U.S.A.     said...

 
Off topic:

The American corn (maize) crop is burning up in the fields.  Several American states, most of them notably in the corn belt, have adopted laws requiring a minimum offering of ethanol/gasoline blends at retail.  Might get to be a sore point come next winter, and could perhaps lead to a long needed rethinking of the ethanol subsidies.  Pretty much anybody looks at those agrees that they do more harm than good.
(And this from a guy with ‘tree-hugger’ tendencies.)

Marcus said...

I remember trying to explain to John a while back the utter folly of using Ethanol for fuel in cars.

It makes sense today, and barely, only in Brazil and only with sugarcane as a feed stock. That's because Brazil is in position to grow that crop in the right location and in enough quantity and has a population that makes man-intensive harvest of it possible. Even then it could be argued to being destructive since it competes with food production which is a global problem today and a progressively worsening one.

Using US corn as a feed stock for Ethanol will require that way more fossil energy is put into the process than you get back in ethanol energy. It cannot work economically without subsidies and from an environmental perspective it cannot work at all - period. It's lunacy.

In OECD countries it's reckoned that we put an average of 12 calories of fossil fuels in the food production process for every single calorie we get back. That's the entire process including transportation of the finished foodstuffs to stores, but not including the customer's transport to and from the store. Completely unsustainable unless fossil fuels existed in endless supplies, and one of the major problems connected to Peak Oil debates (Let's skip the time table for that for now and just agree that eventually Peak Oil, and Peak Every Other Fossil Fuel, will happen).

I don't know exactly what the fossil energy VS food energy equation is for US grown corn (quite a bit better than the 1/12 average I'd guess), but I know you put more energy into the process than you get back. If you then also add the destillation process and all other energy consuming processed needed to turn the corn into a usable fuel it's easy to see you'd have been way better off using the initial fossil fuels for the transportation the ethanol is supposed to provide in the end.

Ethanol is a loser. It's quite possible the surest loser there is. Other forms of energy like hydrogen, etc can at least be theoretically viable with the progression of technology. Not ethanol, it's a certain loser.

   Lee C.  ―   U.S.A.     said...

 
      "Using US corn as a feed stock for Ethanol will
      require that way more fossil energy is put into the
      process than you get back in ethanol energy.
"

You might be taken more seriously if you quit making statements like that.  There's a lot of politically informed debate and lots of people fudging figures, so you can, no doubt, find support for your rant on the subject.  But, an intentionally dispassionate analysis has lead me to believe that there's a small energy net gain realized from producing corn ethanol (stress on the ‘small’ there).  It's hardly sufficient to justify the many downsides though, and certainly not worth subsidizing.

Marcus said...

Lee: "Perhaps this is supposed to be the Obama administration's reward for its political support of their revolution?"

Feel that might be a bit unfair do you? Feel like you did your best but was shat on in return?

Well, welcome to the club. We had 21 aggrevated rapes just last weekend and every single attempt at identification points to non-swedes as perpetrators. It's getting worse now. It's getting really bad. It's relentless.

Statistically (and I know it might not reflect the truth but only what statistical measurements there are) Sweden is second only to Leshoto in rapes per capita and it's all happened in the last decade or so. Now I wonder why that is....?

One, a gangrape in Bollnäs last Saturday of an 18 YO girl had 2 arabs and 2 africans pinned as perpetrators. She was beaten something awful too. Lived through it but barely.

Boy am I beginning to regret our generous immigration policies. It's so not worth it. I, and many with me, are really feeling HATE now. No other way to put it: I'd throw 'em all out just to make this stop, all the innocents along with the guilty.

Lynnette In Minnesota said...

Lee,

I saw this story yesterday, and have been looking since then for an explanation for what the demonstration was supposedly about, but I got no such explanation.

I think she met with both Morsi and the Egyptian military, so my guess would be that these were opposition protesters of whomever, outside whichever place she was at.

Either way the Monica shot was below the belt. All that did was make me, and I'm sure other women, feel sympathetic towards her.

   Lee C.  ―   U.S.A.     said...

 
      "Feel that might be a bit unfair do you? Feel like
      you did your best but was shat on in return?
"

Not so much that.  I was mildly amused.  My first thought was that it would have served them right if they'd actually found Hillary (she was, in fact, on a different street around the corner) and if she'd maybe had the balls to take the stage and give ‘em all the finger for their troubles.  That was my first thought.  Fairly un-diplomatic though, so I dismissed the thought almost as soon as I had it.

Lynnette In Minnesota said...

Lee & Marcus,

[Lee] The American corn (maize) crop is burning up in the fields.

[Marcus] I remember trying to explain to John a while back the utter folly of using Ethanol for fuel in cars.

I am tending to lean towards Marcus' point of view on this, at least when using corn as a feedstock to produce Ethanol. I believe the extremes in weather, unless something is done and it's questionable now if anything can be, will get worse as our climate changes. Whether that change is gradual, or the result of reaching a tipping point that produces a sudden shift, we may find ourselves at a point where feeding our people is far more critical than transportation fuel. Traditional Ethanol production takes a lot of water, and that may be a scarce commodity in the future. At least at times. I think the one alternative source of fuel that is the cleanest and uses the least natural resources is wind. Here I am referring to the US. For other countries it may be a different story. Russia for example may find itself with an abundance of water.

Lynnette In Minnesota said...

My first thought was that it would have served them right if they'd actually found Hillary (she was, in fact, on a different street around the corner) and if she'd maybe had the balls to take the stage and give ‘em all the finger for their troubles.

lol! Don't Tread on Me. :)

   Lee C.  ―   U.S.A.     said...

 
Today's entry re:  American politics.

Romney has renewed his refusal to release any pre-2010 tax returns.  (I wonder if anybody's makin’ book on how long he lets this one fester, and what the odds are today.)

Lynnette In Minnesota said...

Marcus,

No other way to put it: I'd throw 'em all out just to make this stop, all the innocents along with the guilty.

I know, I know, it's hard not to blame everyone, but you're angry now, and blaming innocents isn't going to help anything. They are the ones who can help you. Believe me, if this were easy, it would have been done in the Middle East already, negating the flow of refugees entirely.

Marcus said...

Lynnette: "I know, I know, it's hard not to blame everyone, but you're angry now, and blaming innocents isn't going to help anything. They are the ones who can help you. Believe me"

What!? How?

The only thing I have ever heard from any immigrant commuity is: Don't blame us wholesale for wrongdoings but give us wholesale more money!!!

Lynnette In Minnesota said...

Sad, that. We seem to have had better luck with our immigrant community. They have been known to start their own businesses, work their way up the ladder to high paying jobs, rejuvenate older neighborhoods, and in general give back to the country that gave them shelter. Yes, we have our problems, but they are not insurmountable.

Zeyad said...

The protesters against Hillary were anti-Islamists.

   Lee C.  ―   U.S.A.     said...

 
      "I, and many with me, are really feeling HATE now."

Yeah, well…  We've had this conversation before, and ya just ain't learnin’.  First thing ya gotta do is to not come off soundin’ like a nazi fanatic.  ‘Cause people will key in on that.

   Lee C.  ―   U.S.A.     said...

 
      "The protesters against Hillary were anti-Islamists."

I see.  Blamin’ Morsi's win on the Evil Merkins then.

Arab logic in full glorious flower.

Zeyad said...

I see. Blamin’ Morsi's win on the Evil Merkins then.

No, that's not it. They're bitter about Hillary's flirting with Mursi and the MB. They see her visit at this time as legitimizing the MB's rule and proof to their view that Americans will work with anyone who looks after their interests regardless of principle.

   Lee C.  ―   U.S.A.     said...

 
Egypt is an important regional power.  We have to accept that and deal with that.  We will have to at least offer to work with the leaders whom the Egyptian people present to us as their leaders.  To think otherwise is, as I mentioned before, ‘Arab logic in its full flower.

   Lee C.  ―   U.S.A.     said...

 
      "‘Arab logic in its full flower.’"

And these are supposed to be the educated and saner ones, not the crazy fundies.

Zeyad said...

Marcus, if your government is so pussy about this matter, you need to catch one of those perpetrators off guard (if you can identify them) and deliver some street justice on them. The news will spread fast among their communities and the rest will take notice, trust me. They are abusing your country's humanitarian laws knowing full well that the consequences to them for such attacks are very small (compared to the offence) and that the general population is unwilling to defend itself. That is why it will only continue to get worse before you decide to do something about it.

Petes said...

[Marcus]: "Other forms of energy like hydrogen, etc can at least be theoretically viable with the progression of technology."

Hydrogen doesn't exist in elemental form in the environment. Therefore it is not a "form of energy". It can be manufactured and used as a store of energy ... just like corn ethanol. But it is not easy to handle, is not easily compressible, has low energy density, has continuing technological problems with electrode poisoning in fuel cells, is not a drop-in replacement for liquid fuels, and basically shows no sign of overcoming its many drawbacks.

Petes said...

After U.S. Uproar, Another Syrian “Civilian Massacre” Story Falls Apart

Yet another alleged "massacre" of "civilians" by the Syrian regime was in the establishment-press headlines this week, supposedly a brutal killing spree by dictator Bashar al-Assad’s forces in the village of Tremseh that left up to 250 people dead. As has become typical, Western governments and mainstream media outlets — the New York Times, the BBC, and others included — parroted anonymous “opposition activists” for the claims. But within days, after foreign powers seeking regime change had their chance to beat the war drums even louder, the carefully constructed tale was already falling apart.

U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, one of the top defenders of the dangerous “rebel” coalition operating in Syria at American taxpayer expense, immediately claimed there was "indisputable evidence that the regime deliberately murdered innocent civilians" — “over 200 men, women and children,” in fact. She did not present or cite any of the alleged evidence, but vowed to punish those responsible amid more calls for immediate regime change. Other Western leaders and financiers of the violence in Syria issued similar condemnations and more threats.

Despite hysterical reporting and wild statements by political leaders, however, even “opposition activists” were conceding early on that most of the dead were actually armed combatants who had staged attacks on the regime’s military forces. More recent reports, even those based on anonymous “opposition activists,” also suggest that closer to 100 people had died. Almost all of the dead were military-aged men, too — a far cry from Clinton’s “over 200 men, women and children.”

... “The BBC's Jim Muir in Beirut says it remains far from clear what took place at Tremseh,” acknowledged the state-run British news service, days after touting opposition claims along with most of the establishment press and not long after it was caught using an old photo from Iraq to illustrate a previous “civilian massacre” in Syria. After parroting anonymous claims about the latest alleged “civilian massacre” in Tremseh conducted by the regime, other news outlets and “opposition activists” reluctantly followed suit and admitted that the facts did not fit the original allegations.

Clinton and other Western advocates of “regime change,” however, have not yet corrected themselves. And as the war-mongers continue to demand international military intervention to oust the Syrian despot, it is unlikely that they will.

...The Times also cited a statement by the anti-Assad Muslim Brotherhood. “The Muslim Brotherhood in Syria do not consider Bashar the Beast the only one responsible for this horrific massacre,” the radical Islamic socialist group claimed. “Responsibility for this and for previous massacres also lies with Annan, with the Russians and the Iranians, and all those states who claim they are protecting peace and stability yet stay silent and skulk away from taking any responsibility.” Apparently the extremist group wants the world to intervene militarily on its side.

   Lee C.  ―   U.S.A.     said...

 
Speaking of Syria, (so to speak) I noticed that the rebels were fighting, fairly broadly, in Damascus this past 24 hours or so.  Assad has pulled troops back in from duty outside Damascus to handle the pressure.

   Lee C.  ―   U.S.A.     said...

 
Right-winger, minor-saint and Arizona sheriff, Joe Arpaio has determined that Obama's long form Hawaian birth certificate is a fake(This one ranks right up there with Donald Trump as Statesman of the Year’)  The birthers are back.

Lynnette In Minnesota said...

Top Syrian officials killed

Lynnette In Minnesota said...

Marcus,

As a follow up of our earlier discussion regarding crime and punishment:

17 year old to be tried as an adult

Lynnette In Minnesota said...

More recent reports, even those based on anonymous “opposition activists,” also suggest that closer to 100 people had died.

Only a mere 100? Oh well, that's all right then. We can ignore them.

Apparently the extremist group wants the world to intervene militarily on its side.

Everyone wants the world on their side. However, if there is military intervention, it would not be wise to assume it is in support of one faction over another.

PeteS, I am surprised at this link you left. Usually you are a little more balanced.

Lynnette In Minnesota said...

They see her visit at this time as legitimizing the MB's rule...

Hmmm...given that she met with military leaders as well, it would seem to me that she is trying for an evenhanded approach. They are too sensitive.

   Lee C.  ―   U.S.A.     said...

 
      "They are too sensitive."

That's ‘generous’ to say the least.  There's no question of any significant fraud in the Egyptian elections.  It would seem that Morsi just won (reasonably close with the ex-last prime minister, and not a lot of people voting, but Morsi just won more votes than anybody else is what happened)That is what gave ‘legitimacy’ to his election.  He won.  ‘We wish somebody else had won’ is not a democratic ‘principle’ upon which American foreign policy can stand.  Those clowns don't seem to have much of a grasp of or respect for democratic rule in the first place.
It's almost offensive to sit here and read about us ‘legitimizing the MB's rule’ and ‘proof…that American will work with anyone who looks after [our] interests’ and to have those clowns pretend it's somehow seen as a matter of ‘principle’ with them.

Although I do not doubt that they may feel just as Zeyad has described.  It's still a bit offensive.

Marcus said...

Zeyad: "Marcus, if your government is so pussy about this matter, you need to catch one of those perpetrators off guard (if you can identify them) and deliver some street justice on them. The news will spread fast among their communities and the rest will take notice, trust me. They are abusing your country's humanitarian laws knowing full well that the consequences to them for such attacks are very small (compared to the offence) and that the general population is unwilling to defend itself. That is why it will only continue to get worse before you decide to do something about it."

Well the problem is that it's not that easy for individuals to pinpoint the perpetrators, get at them, and deliver street justice without themselves being caught by police.

I assure you I would do my very best if something like that happened to someone I was close to.

But I think more sweeping measures are needed now.

1. A complete stop of new immigration.

2. Deportation of any non-swede criminals.

3. Deportation of any foreign nationals who are not actively trying to support themselves.

Etc.

Lynnette In Minnesota said...

It's almost offensive to sit here and read about us ‘legitimizing the MB's rule’ and ‘proof…that American will work with anyone who looks after [our] interests’...

Yes, I know. It's basically a squirrally way of getting out of their own responsibility. It's always easy to blame us, not themselves. In reality, what did they expect us to do? If we are truly to support democracy like everyone supposedly wants, then we have no choice but to work with whoever they have chosen.

What Zeyad is describing is classic Middle Eastern thinking of blaming "the other".

Btw, I noticed that Sandmonkey has some new posts up, in case anyone interested.

Lynnette In Minnesota said...

Well the problem is that it's not that easy for individuals to pinpoint the perpetrators, get at them, and deliver street justice without themselves being caught by police.

It's only easy in fiction. I would not have picked Tom Cruise for that role, btw.

Marcus said...

From Britain:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/9410827/A-fifth-of-murder-and-rape-suspects-are-immigrants.html

At least there it's allowed for MSM to reveal it.

Ucht said...

‘Arab logic in its full flower.’

Unashamed racism.

   Lee C.  ―   U.S.A.     said...

 
      "Unashamed racism."

I probably should have expected that.
Let's start by pointing out that, in America, Arabs are classified as among the historically privileged ‘race’.  Arabs are considered white folks.  During the height of American Jim Crow racism, Arabs got to sit in the front of the bus, and sit at the white folks' lunch counters and be served and got to do all that good ‘white folks’ stuff that came with being of the privileged race.  Arabs are white folks so far as we Americans classify such things.
Then I'll point out that, genetically, the Arabs and the Jews are of the same stock.  They are of the same ‘race’, if one considers Semites a race (which I do not).  Subtracting out the surprisingly minimal interbreeding between the Jews and native Europeans during the diaspora; they're almost indistinguishable genetically.  The failure of logic to which I refer has not a damn thing to do with their ‘race’, or else we'd find the same lack among the Jews.
Finally, I don't buy the notion that there are different races.  I don't deny that there are some genetic differences among ethnically distinct populations, but I do deny that these rise to a level that allows one to distinguish different ‘races’ from among the human species.  There is only the one ‘race’.  Been that way since the Neandertals went extinct.

   Lee C.  ―   U.S.A.     said...

 
      "…in 2011 we removed over 4,500 foreign national
      offenders.
"

Given a U.K. total population of around 64 million, that'd translate into Sweden ejecting over 500 foreign criminal types each year.  How many are you sending back?

Lynnette In Minnesota said...

At least there it's allowed for MSM to reveal it.

Sounds like you need a little more honest journalism in Sweden, Marcus.

Lynnette In Minnesota said...

Btw, as a follow up to my link on banks fixing of LIBOR, they are now looking at pressing criminal charges against the banks and people involved.

   Lee C.  ―   U.S.A.     said...

 
Bankers rippin’ off taxpayers and customers is one thing.  Bankers rippin’ off other bankers is another thing entirely.  This cannot be borne.

Lynnette In Minnesota said...

Oh, you never know, maybe there will be a trickle down effect...

Marcus said...

Lee: "How many are you sending back?"

I don't know. Like I've said before statistics in Sweden can be pretty hard to find, especially anything regarding immigration.

My hunch is that it's a fraction of 500 who are sentenced to deportation and actually deported also. You hear of one every month or so, but that's usually in high profile criminal cases. What's way more common are criminal cases for vicious crimes where deportation is not part of the sentence.

Marcus said...

And I do believe the situation is worse in Sweden than in England. Look at these statistics for robberies:

http://affes.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/ran_1987_1999_2011.png?w=720

The left (blue) staple represents swedes. The right foreign background.

Pink is what the "normal" statistical figure for foreign background would be if they committed as many robberies as the average swede. Red is the over-representation. Yellow are foreigners with no adress here at all (basically crime-tourism).

As I've said before. It's bad, it's relentless and it's getting worse and worse. Here you have a good visual representation. Maybe you can understand my frustration and anger better seeing this.

   Lee C.  ―   U.S.A.     said...

 
      "What's way more common are criminal cases for
      vicious crimes where deportation is not part of the
      sentence.
"

Well, if you were gonna try to get something actually done, and maybe not come across as a ranting nazi fanatic in the process, I might suggest that as a place to start.  If ya'll were to start actually shippin’ bad buys back to the their own bad places, that'd probably get their attention too, and you'd maybe not have to go in for the ‘street justice’ that Zeyad was suggesting.  Surely you can figure out how to frame the argument as a necessary ‘weeding out’ of the bad guys who managed to slip in amongst all the nice Muslim people.

   Lee C.  ―   U.S.A.     said...

 
… actually shippin’ bad guys back…

Marcus said...

Lee: "Surely you can figure out how to frame the argument as a necessary ‘weeding out’ of the bad guys who managed to slip in amongst all the nice Muslim people."

1. I am not using the same arguments in every arena. Here I have been venting, mostly.

2. I don't think you really realise how little it takes to fall into the "raving-nazi" cathegory here. You'd be there. Bridget too. And Zeyad also after his last comment.

3. You still seem to think I'm overly hung up on their supposed muslim faith. I do have strong reservations when it comes to Islam, especially political Islam or extremist Islam. But when it comes to the crime among immigrants in Sweden little of it is religious. Some is justified with religion, but not that much.

   Lee C.  ―   U.S.A.     said...

 
      "You still seem to think I'm overly hung up on their
      supposed muslim faith.
"

Not so much that.  Instead I think you'll get accused of religious intolerance and persecution, especially by some of the more vocal elements of the immigrant community.  You need to be ready for it.

Your main argument maybe needs to be that the immigrants came to Sweden to escape these sorts of people.  Ya'll ain't doin’ your duty to your refugees if you continue to let the wolves run loose among the sheep even after the sheep have made it to Sweden.

Marcus said...

So I should lie and claim I am worried about how some immigrants will target other immigrants with crime, when in fact I'm furious with how some, but way too many, immigrants are targetting us swedes who let them in here and who are paying for them?

I don't know about that. Possibly it's better to stick to my guns, since they have a lot of ammo, and wait patiently for the debate climate to change, then fire away.

   Lee C.  ―   U.S.A.     said...

 
      "…claim I am worried about how some immigrants
      will target other immigrants with crime, when in fact
      I'm furious with how some, but way too many,
      immigrants are targetting us swedes…
"

It's not like those are mutually exclusive or contradictory positions.  I'm not suggesting you lie.  It's merely a matter of chosing ones emphasis.
What you should be trying to do is get your audience concerned with what they might be convinced to become concerned about just now.
When the debate climate changes you may add to your arguments.  No point in pressing now on the additional arguments they're not prepared to hear and consider.
That's not inherently dishonest, merely political.

Lynnette In Minnesota said...

Marcus,

I can't imagine that you are the only one who feels this way. There must be some way to elect someone that will help toughen Sweden's laws a little. If you frame your arguement in reasonable terms people will listen. As you say, there is enough evidence of a problem to warrant attention.

Btw, I was looking at our statistics and apparently a lot of crime is attributable to illegal immigrant gangs. That's to say illegal immigrants. But in our case, if they are caught, it is likely they will be deported.

Marcus said...

Lee, Lynnette, speaking about laws I was wondering something. You have "hate crime" laws in the USA right? If I am corretly informmad that means if you commit an act of violence against anyone and it can be argued in court that it was done because of hatred to that person's group you can get a heaver scentence, right?

An example of that would be some gay-hater beating up a gay guy because he's a gay guy. The basher could then get a heavier scentence than the beating alone warrants, because it was based on such hatred. Have I got that right?

Second question: is that sort of legislation applicable against anyone for attacks even n majority groups? Or is it something that only applies when a "minority" of some sort is the victim?

   Lee C.  ―   U.S.A.      said...

 
      "is that sort of legislation applicable against anyone
      for attacks even n majority groups?
"

Yeah, minorities targeting white folks, for instance, on account of they don't like white folks, or gays deciding to target some ‘breeders’ is also a ‘hate crime’, and can get a more severe sentence in jurisdictions where ‘hate crimes’ laws exist (which is most of the states).

Marcus said...

That's curious. Because we have a "hate crime" law here as well. It's called, litterally translated "agitation against a group of people" (hets mot folkgrupp), but it doesn't read well in english. Anyway, it applies to any group other than the majority swedes who doesn't belong to a minority of some sort. Us you're free to hate all you want. But we're good for one thing: paying for most of society.

And it's not that the legislation isn't used if it comes to someone like me being a victim of a hate crime. It literally doesn't apply.

Marcus said...

And "hets mot folkgrupp" works in two ways. First it's a way to prosecute someone for written or spoken words that "offend" someone. That in itself is a crrime if I do it against a "minority" but not vice versa.

Second, like your hate crime laws, it will bring a stricter ruling if another crime, like abuse, is being ruled on. And again it works in one direction only.