السبت، يونيو 23، 2012

Bumping into...



Living in San Antonio TX, a military city, it's not uncommon for me to literally 'bump' into American servicemen who have fought (or are still fighting) in Iraq (and other parts of the world). This was a US Air Force pilot who was part of both Desert Storm and the recent Iraq war and was proud of it. 

هناك 126 تعليقًا:

Indigo يقول...

To be honest, I cannot begin to imagine what it would feel like to live among those who took part in an illegal invasion of my country, killed tens of thousands of innocent civilians, deployed illegal weapons in Fallujah (eg depleted uranium), dispersed families across the globe, and thus allowed fundamentalists to flourish in place of what had been a liberal and functioning society.

As you may be aware, former prime minister Tony Blair is not being allowed to forget his role in the illegal invasion of Iraq. Individuals keep popping up unexpectedly (eg at the Leveson Inquiry) and telling him he is a war criminal.

غير معرف يقول...

This is the theme that plays in my head.

JG يقول...

Well said, Rachel.

Blair is a criminal, we know this, but it is comforting to know he will never be able to safely walk down any street in the world as long as the miserable bastard lives.

   Lee C.  ―  U.S.A.    يقول...
أزال أحد مشرفي المدونة هذا التعليق.
   Lee C.  ―  U.S.A.    يقول...
أزال أحد مشرفي المدونة هذا التعليق.
Petes يقول...

^ The author here is known to be an unabashed troll.

Petes يقول...

Zeyad, why do you have rosary beads hanging from your rearview mirror? :-)

   Lee C.  ―  U.S.A.    يقول...
أزال أحد مشرفي المدونة هذا التعليق.
Zeyad يقول...

Petey, just a symbol of where I come from. We call them sibha in Arabic, which is derived from the noun tasbih (to mention God's name).

Petes يقول...

Is your car owned or shared with a religiously observant person? Or is it common to have religious symbols as a memento of home? Or have you taken up religion? ;-)

Over here you might occasionally see someone with rosary beads on their mirror or dashboard, but unless they're practicing, it would be more common to have furry dice or some such. (Up in Lee C's neck of the woods they can put you in jail for that... must be a lot of po-faced folks up that direction ;-)

Petes يقول...

[Troll]: "you didn't actually have anything to say on the subject I raised"

This may be news to you, so listen up. I don't feel duty bound to say anything about anything you raise. No idea what you're talking about in this instance.

If it's the "new types of nuclear reactions" thing, then get over it -- it's completely correct, for reasons more complicated than yer furious Googlin' have turned up so far. You can deal with your "alternate fuel" booboo on yer own, ain't nuthin' to do with me.

Meanwhile y'all will no doubt be hoping we quickly forget about:

[Troll]: "The orbital distance increases as the mass of the central body drops and the ‘orbital speed’ remains the same."

^ Hint for y'all: that's wrong. Badly, stupidly, completely wrong. Warned y'all you'd only get upset if y'all took on the question but y'all paid no never mind.

[Troll]: "What will happen instead is that, long before the sun has lost half its mass, the mass that it does lose, and the gravity that it does lose along with that mass, will allow the surface layers of the sun to expand greatly... Our yellowish sun WILL turn into a ‘red giant’. " (emphasis mine)

Another hint for y'all: that's wrong too, in spite of y'all pretendin' to forget what the use of past and future tense means in English. Sun-sized stars that WILL become red giants don't lose appreciable mass before that. They are not "allowed" to swell up by their lower gravity -- that's got nothin' whatever to do with it.

Don't know why I bother with this. Already showed ya up to be a stupid liar on a previous technical thread that y'all eventually just wouldn't answer questions on (just like here). I don't expect that's gonna change.

Zeyad يقول...

No, it's mine. I have quite a collection of beads. Nothing to do with religion.

   Lee C.  ―  U.S.A.    يقول...
أزال أحد مشرفي المدونة هذا التعليق.
   Lee C.  ―  U.S.A.    يقول...
أزال أحد مشرفي المدونة هذا التعليق.
Petes يقول...

[Troll]: "Pick it up where you left it off."

Y'all's conveniently defective memory is bein' rolled out to cover y'alls ass as usual. I didn't leave it off. I ended with the self same question that had you stumped nine months previously -- the one you wouldn't respond to because the answer had to be either self-contradictory or would show y'all up to be a lyin' toe rag. It's still back there, waitin' to be answered since YOU left off. But y'all have no interest in goin' back there despite yer bleatin' here. In fact y'all have a highly vested interest in runnin' a mile from that thread. So let's not have this crappy pretence that y'all want to revisit it. What y'all want is to not be confronted here or there, 'cos y'all's been shown to be a dumb cluck without the wit to take help when y'all need it.

   Lee C.  ―  U.S.A.    يقول...
أزال أحد مشرفي المدونة هذا التعليق.
   Lee C.  ―  U.S.A.    يقول...
أزال أحد مشرفي المدونة هذا التعليق.
   Lee C.  ―  U.S.A.    يقول...
أزال أحد مشرفي المدونة هذا التعليق.
Lynnette In Minnesota يقول...

No, please, no! Not another 10 hour video!

Star Wars, though, one of my favorite Sy-Fy movie series.

Lynnette In Minnesota يقول...

Zeyad,

Hmmm...well, yes, I suppose the place is crawling with US military. But, it waaaas your choice to move to Texas, when there are all sorts of perfectly good states out there to choose from. :) Although, when you think about it, our military personnel are really the most knowledgable about the difficulties faced by Iraqis in Iraq, no matter who caused those difficulties.

Yes, I was wondering about those beads myself. Someone always gets to my questions first. lol!

Lynnette In Minnesota يقول...

From the other thread:

Given that they couldn't possibly tear off the whole seat (it would render the train unusable), they would just use the seat backs as seats or cushions in a mud shack or wherever else they would find a use for them. We are a resourceful people.

Now imagine if that resourcefulness was used for the good of the country...

Petes يقول...

[Dim troll]: "So, technically, Zeyad's Arabic string of prayer beads isn't a rosary at all.
Ya missed another one Catholic. And this one shoulda been right up your alley."


I use rosary beads on a regular basis. Ya don't think I know what they look like? The question to Zeyad was tongue-in-cheek. God in heaven, y'all are a dimwitted donkey.

Lynnette In Minnesota يقول...

[Rachel] ...allowed fundamentalists to flourish in place of what had been a liberal and functioning society.

And what have you been smoking?

When are you going to see the Middle East's reality? Look at the election results in Egypt. Look at Iran. Look at KSA. Look at Syria. Look again at Iraq under Saddam. Look at Iraq now. Do you think it is (or would be) easy to become a liberal, functioning democracy for any of them? You can't just flip a switch and make it so. It takes dedication, hard work, and a passionate belief in the rights of all people to be free to choose their own path.

What happened today in Egypt was amazing in a way, because it really was an honest portrayal of the feelings of the people, in all their uncertainty, fear and hoope. I don't know how that will turn out, but perhaps it is as Sandmonkey wrote, a new chapter. Perhaps the balance of power will be such that people will be forced to compromise, or the nation will be torn apart.

Iraq is struggling with so much besides just a change in leadership. As Zeyad pointed out with the train post, corruption is rampant. Until that is dealt with, it will be difficult to build anything good and lasting. Saddam's Iraq was a dictatorship. If that is what you term liberal and functioning, then you don't know the definition of liberal, nor functioning. Because if a society needs to be a dictatorship to survive then it is not functioning.

   Lee C.  ―  U.S.A.    يقول...
أزال أحد مشرفي المدونة هذا التعليق.
   Lee C.  ―  U.S.A.    يقول...
أزال أحد مشرفي المدونة هذا التعليق.
Lynnette In Minnesota يقول...

God does not change people until they change themselves. [Quran, 13:11) Excerpted from "Palace of Desire" by Naguib Mahfouz.

Lynnette In Minnesota يقول...

Nevertheless, it might have helped some if we'd gotten them off to a better start.

I agree. We were far to haphazard in our efforts. Unfortunately, some of that was due to our own internal politics and the personal agendas of various people.

Maybe have displayed some of that dedication and hard work stuff during the entirely predictable initial rebuilding stage.

Now there I disagree. There were a lot of people who worked very hard. Not all, no. But quite a few. And I won't criticize their efforts.

There were too many forces tugging us this way and that. It's hard to make progress in the middle of a whirlwind.

   Lee C.  ―  U.S.A.    يقول...
أزال أحد مشرفي المدونة هذا التعليق.
Petes يقول...

[Dim troll]: "Yeah, right."

Ok, ya got me. I've never seen a rosary before. Never noticed them hangin' off 10,000 stalls at Lourdes and Fatima and Medjugorje, let alone used one. Accidentally thought that thing in the picture was one of those things I've never seen before. Never thought the resident troll would be trollsome enough to Google "rosary" and I wasn't clever enough to think of it myself.

That suit ya better?

Eejit.

I guess in Troll Fairyland a bear doesn't shit in the woods, the Pope doesn't pray, and a Catholic doesn't know what a rosary looks like.

1000% troll ignore mode is now on.

Lynnette In Minnesota يقول...

It appears that Turkey has declared the shootdown of their plane by Syria as a hostile act and has brought it to the attention of NATO, who they are a member of.

   Lee C.  ―  U.S.A.    يقول...
أزال أحد مشرفي المدونة هذا التعليق.
Lynnette In Minnesota يقول...

Precious few of them at the Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld/Wolfowitz/Perle policy level, in Washington D.C., where some actual dedication to rebuilding could have done a lot of good.

I don't think nation building was part of President Bush's agenda when he first took office, and he never quite switched gears enough to make it so later. Possibly due to bad advice by those who thought we could get in and out of Iraq quickly. Possibly due to bad relations with State. Kind of hard to get anything done if everyone is workind against each other.

   Lee C.  ―  U.S.A.    يقول...
أزال أحد مشرفي المدونة هذا التعليق.
Lynnette In Minnesota يقول...

Takin’ it up a notch.

Yes. Turkey effectively is saying Syria has "drawn" on NATO.

   Lee C.  ―  U.S.A.    يقول...
أزال أحد مشرفي المدونة هذا التعليق.
   Lee C.  ―  U.S.A.    يقول...
أزال أحد مشرفي المدونة هذا التعليق.
Lynnette In Minnesota يقول...

Cavelier? Hmmm...maybe, but I think I tend to blame Bush's support team, more so than the President. Rumsfeld and Cheney in particular, I think. Strangely enough I think the President might have been made to change his mind on this if it had been coached in the right way. But, that's only a guess, since I have never actually met the man.

And for nation building to have been tried, we would have had to ignore the Rachels, Brunos, and Annies of the world, who kept saying we were infringing on Iraqi sovereignty. We would also have had to deal continually with Iraqi nationalists who were mad as wet hens that we had invaded their country. In the end we threw up our hands and said, "fine, you do it". And so, we are seeing how they are doing it.

Lynnette In Minnesota يقول...

And now, for my Readers Digest joke of the day:

My sister-in-law and her five-year-old were driving one evening when they noticed a stark-naked woman in the convertible next to them. My sister-in-law was shocked but not as much as her son.

"Look at her!" he yelled. "She isn't wearing a seat belt!"

Petes يقول...

[Troll]: "I can clean up my ‘favorites’ list now."


Think he means his chamber of horrors. Or his litany of embarrassments.

Petes يقول...

[JG$]: "Blair is a criminal, we know this, but it is comforting to know he will never be able to safely walk down any street in the world as long as the miserable bastard lives."

Why, what would YOU do to him if you saw him?

   Lee C.  ―  U.S.A.    يقول...
أزال أحد مشرفي المدونة هذا التعليق.
JG يقول...

[Shame of Ireland] Why, what would YOU do to him if you saw him?

I wouldn't see him. He doesn't walk the streets.

Marcus يقول...

"Sometimes The Phantom leaves the jungle and walks the street like an ordinary man."

Petes يقول...

Troll bein' on ignore mode doesn't mean he gets away with spoutin' nonsense.

   Lee C.  ―  U.S.A.    يقول...

 
Wanna talk ‘spoutin’ nonsense’ do ya?  I guess that beats talkin’ ‘bout how your resolution to ignore lasted less than three hours, don't it?

Okay, lets talk ‘bout the nonsense you were spoutin’:
 
      "I didn't leave it off. I ended with the self same
      question that had you stumped nine months
      previously…
"
      Petes @ 11:15 AM

Except, truth is otherwise.  You hadn't ended with a question at all, much less any ‘same question that had [me] stumped’ months ago.  We took the time to look; no question there.  You just made that stuff up, right there on the spot.
And you continued on:

      "But y'all have no interest in goin' back there
      despite yer bleatin' here. In fact y'all have a highly
      vested interest in runnin' a mile from that thread. So
      let's not have this crappy pretence that y'all want to
      revisit it.
"

The only evidence there could possibly be for that proposition is yet to be had.  Take it back to where it belongs, and pick up where ya left it off.  I'll be there.  The challenge has been made and is now made again.
I don't think you're foolin’ anybody by claiming you can't accept the challenge on account of I'll fold if you do.  That doesn't even make Bruno kind of sense.

Your move. 

Petes يقول...

^ Scroll

   Lee C.  ―  U.S.A.    يقول...
أزال أحد مشرفي المدونة هذا التعليق.
Petes يقول...

^ Scroll

Petes يقول...

(and everyone else only has to look at that link, or even just search it for the word "question" to know that the troll is lyin' and blusterin' to try and save face again)

   Lee C.  ―  U.S.A.    يقول...
أزال المؤلف هذا التعليق.
   Lee C.  ―  U.S.A.    يقول...
أزال أحد مشرفي المدونة هذا التعليق.
   Lee C.  ―  U.S.A.    يقول...
أزال أحد مشرفي المدونة هذا التعليق.
   Lee C.  ―  U.S.A.    يقول...
أزال أحد مشرفي المدونة هذا التعليق.
Petes يقول...

^ Troll is flingin' troll shit. Scroll.

Petes يقول...

(Non-trolls will notice that I said nothing about the last post on that thread. I said I ended with a question, and that is indeed what ended any pretension of integrity on the part of the troll. I also point out that the troll can end this to his own satisfaction anytime he likes, without further reference to me. His contention for 9 months was that Step 4 of this algorithm on Wikipedia contains an incorrect factorisation. Since anyone can edit Wikipedia, he can do everyone a favour by correcting the mistake. If nobody complains about his edits then it'll turn out he was right all along. If he doesn't edit Wikipedia but just keeps bangin' on about it here, it'll be clear he's just trollin' ... not that there was ever any doubt on that score. Let's not forget he has devoted many hundreds of posts to this stupidity, before he finally got stumped by his own self-contradiction. One tiny edit on Wikipedia -- a matter of a minute or so -- would resolve it for him).

Bruno يقول...

@Zeyad

Whats more interesting to me is: have you ever talked to these folks about what happened in Iraq ... and what did their response make you feel like? (My guess is that you don't, because by now we've all seen what the warmonger breed is like, and we all know what their response would be.) I remember a man called (if I recall correctly) Haidar setting up a little booth called "talk to an Iraqi" and the responses he got.

Marcus يقول...

Lynnette: "Turkey effectively is saying Syria has "drawn" on NATO."

Syria says it shot the plane down inside it's own airspace. Turkey says it did indeed violate Syria's airspace but was shot down over international waters.

Well, what was a Turkish plane doing in Syria's airspace in this tense situation? And what would happen to a Syrian plane that flew into Turkish airspace right about now? Or Israeli airspace just about any time for that matter?

   Lee C.  ―  U.S.A.    يقول...
أزال أحد مشرفي المدونة هذا التعليق.
   Lee C.  ―  U.S.A.    يقول...

 
Typo:

      "That'd be…"

   Lee C.  ―  U.S.A.    يقول...
أزال أحد مشرفي المدونة هذا التعليق.
   Lee C.  ―  U.S.A.    يقول...
أزال أحد مشرفي المدونة هذا التعليق.
Lynnette In Minnesota يقول...

US Supreme Court rules against most provisions in Arizona Immigration Law.

   Lee C.  ―  U.S.A.    يقول...
أزال أحد مشرفي المدونة هذا التعليق.
Lynnette In Minnesota يقول...

Bruno,

Whats more interesting to me is: have you ever talked to these folks about what happened in Iraq ...

It's an interesting quesiton you asked Zeyad, Bruno. Personally, I would think he talks to whomever he feels the most comfortable with, military or otherwise. I mentioned in my comment to him earlier that I thought the military personnel who served in Iraq may have the best idea of what Iraqis went through. That was because they were there and were witnesses to some of it.

(My guess is that you don't, because by now we've all seen what the warmonger breed is like, and we all know what their response would be.)

I'm sure Zeyad can form his own opinions of whomever he chooses to, Bruno.

Lynnette In Minnesota يقول...

Marcus,

Well, what was a Turkish plane doing in Syria's airspace in this tense situation?

Turkey says it just strayed a littler further then intended. True, or not? I don't know.

And what would happen to a Syrian plane that flew into Turkish airspace right about now? Or Israeli airspace just about any time for that matter?

As Turkey pointed out, and I believe is proper procedure, the plane would be given a verbal warning, if that didn't work, planes would be sent to escort it out of their airspace. And, if that didn't work, then it is fair game to be shot down. According to Turkey there were no warnings given.

Lynnette In Minnesota يقول...

the Iraqi government has ordered the closing of 44 media outlets in Iraq, including BBC and Voice of America.

Idiots.

   Lee C.  ―  U.S.A.    يقول...
أزال أحد مشرفي المدونة هذا التعليق.
   Lee C.  ―  U.S.A.    يقول...

 
wandered, with an a

Petes يقول...

^ Scroll. Troll's flingin' troll shit every which way.
He can end his nine month torture on the factorisation thing over at Wikipedia any time he likes, where they will a) laugh their asses off at him, b) ban him from editing again.
With the orbital radius and red giant expansion booboos, there's no easy way out for him. So he'll rely on the old tactics -- evasion and obfuscation. Some day it'll occur to him to ask for a free maths lesson. Or maybe not. Maybe vexatious trolls never rise above their self-imposed ignorance. They prefer lyin' and stupidity to knowledge. Quite tragic really.

Petes يقول...

(Occurs to me, the troll's invitation to go back over it all again prolly means he's found another wiki page that he thinks he understands. Maybe somethin' about the CNO cycle versus the proton-proton chain. Wants to go another round with his shiny new gloves on. Hope springs eternal, 'n' all that).

   Lee C.  ―  U.S.A.    يقول...
أزال أحد مشرفي المدونة هذا التعليق.
Marcus يقول...

Lynnette, it largely depends on whose version you believe. And really you should not believe one over the other at this point is my opinion. Turkey claims that Syrias territorial waters extends 12 miles from the coast and that the plane went in then was shot after going back out at about 13 miles off the coast. Syria claims that the plane was flying at an altitude of a mere 100 meters and they shot it down about 1 mile off their coast, far into their territorial waters. They also claim the projectiles used have a range of only about 2 miles so it would have been impossible to reach outside their territorial waters.

Someone's lying, and both have reason to do so. If you haven't noticed there's an all out propaganda war going on.

For that matter many turkish commentators are also wondering what their plane was doing inside Syria's territory with the situation being as tense as it is (not that they aren't pissed with the Syrians for shooting it down). Strange kind of "accident" that, wouldn't you say?

Also, again, I would like for you to try to see the situation from other perspectives. Change the intruder and the country who shoots an intruder down. Try a few different scenarios. See if you're still so sure many others would have acted with more restraint when there's what amounts to a civil war going on in their country and weapons are smuggled across their borders. Try, for instance, a Syrian military plane in Israeli territorial waters during Israels war with Lebanon. Do you really believe the Israelis would do anything but shoot it from the skies as fast as possible and would you really have objected to that?

   Lee C.  ―  U.S.A.    يقول...
أزال أحد مشرفي المدونة هذا التعليق.
   Lee C.  ―  U.S.A.    يقول...
أزال أحد مشرفي المدونة هذا التعليق.
   Lee C.  ―  U.S.A.    يقول...
أزال أحد مشرفي المدونة هذا التعليق.
Marcus يقول...

They're claiming they didn't. They're claiming an unknown military aircraft flying in their national airspace and they fired first since they perceived it to be a threat. They're saying that the military was under standing order to fire on perceived threats in their airspace. They're basically saying it was a snap decision made by military personell who perceived a threat to them in their own territory and that the whole thing was "regrettable".

That's their story, which I doubt is entirely true.

But I also doubt the Turkish story about the plane being on some sort of planned excersise and getting off course and mistakenly entering into Syrian airspace.

   Lee C.  ―  U.S.A.    يقول...
أزال أحد مشرفي المدونة هذا التعليق.
Lynnette In Minnesota يقول...

Marcus,

Someone's lying,

Turkey has admitted that the plane strayed into Syrian territory. They both agree on that. The question is, was there any warning given and at what point was the plane shot down?

If you haven't noticed there's an all out propaganda war going on.

There usually is, isn't there?

Strange kind of "accident" that, wouldn't you say?

Maybe, maybe not. I don't know how good the Turkish Air Force is. But I can't imagine why they would be testing the Syrian air defenses like that, really. It would be a foolhardy thing to do, the situation being as "tense" as it is, wouldn't it?

Also, again, I would like for you to try to see the situation from other perspectives. Change the intruder and the country who shoots an intruder down.

Marcus, I can't imagine any country more jumpy then we were after 9/11. There were any number of incidents of unidentified planes being tracked and intercepted. None were shot down. And all proved to be innocent of any wrongdoing, except maybe straying into restricted airspace.

Marcus يقول...

"If they couldn't identify it as Turkish, they couldn't know if it were military."

They're saying they did identify it as a military aircraft but could not lock down a nationality.

   Lee C.  ―  U.S.A.    يقول...
أزال أحد مشرفي المدونة هذا التعليق.
Lynnette In Minnesota يقول...

They're basically saying it was a snap decision made by military personell who perceived a threat to them in their own territory...

That could very well be true. I can see where they might be a little nervous.

...and that the whole thing was "regrettable".

Yes, indeed.

They're claiming an unknown military aircraft flying in their national airspace and they fired first since they perceived it to be a threat.

Hmmm...if they couldn't figure out who it was, but they could tell it was military, one has to wonder if maybe they thought it was Syrian military. They did just have one defect, didn't they? I can't remember if that happened before or after the shootdown, though. Anybody remember?

   Lee C.  ―  U.S.A.    يقول...
أزال أحد مشرفي المدونة هذا التعليق.
   Lee C.  ―  U.S.A.    يقول...

 
Before.

   Lee C.  ―  U.S.A.    يقول...

 
That's odd.  I didn't post that twice.

   Lee C.  ―  U.S.A.    يقول...
أزال أحد مشرفي المدونة هذا التعليق.
Lynnette In Minnesota يقول...

Before.

Yes, I just checked. The defection happened on Thursday and the shootdown happened on Friday.

I can see where they might go after a plane leaving their airspace, if they thought it was another defection. They seem to be having more problems with people "jumping ship" lately, in the air and on the ground.

Petes يقول...

[Lyin' Troll]: "The only place they do it wrong is in the ‘fallacy’ section where they put out your version of how it's done and label it as wrong!; they label it as fallacious."

Troll thinks he can get away with that barefaced lyin' shit now 'cos everyone's beyond carin'. What a stupid, lyin', shit-flingin' troll.
"My version" that he refers to is the factorisation on line 4 here. Troll said on too many occasions to enumerate that factorisation was wrong. That wiki link says explicitly the fallacy is on line 5, not the factorisation on line 4. Troll is lyin', he knows he's lyin', and he's hopin' to fling enough shit to confuse things.

Here is one among many links that proves he's lyin' (search for wiki).

Troll can now go to wikipedia and point out their error (to which they will respond with the derision his childish maths deserves), or admit he was wrong and actin' the eejit for hundreds of posts. Or he can do what he often does - deny he said what he said even when handed a link to his quote. Or he can shut up and go away. That'd suit just fine too.

   Lee C.  ―  U.S.A.    يقول...
أزال أحد مشرفي المدونة هذا التعليق.
   Lee C.  ―  U.S.A.    يقول...
أزال أحد مشرفي المدونة هذا التعليق.
   Lee C.  ―  U.S.A.    يقول...
أزال أحد مشرفي المدونة هذا التعليق.
Petes يقول...

[Troll]: "Presumably, they were more worried about explaining the division by zero problem and not so much interested in correct factoring there"

Ya couldn't make this shit up. "They got the previous line completely wrong 'cos they were focussin' on the followin' one". Troll never did figure out that the steps of an argument depend on each other. But he's additionally claimin' that none of the dozens of editors, across hundreds of edits in eight years of that wiki page's existence, nor any of the thousands of viewers of that page, ever once noticed the flat out glaring mistake that the troll alleges. What a sad, lyin' bag of shit. I'd swear he dudn't believe this stuff hisself, exceptin' I've seen him claim even more ludicrous shit elsewhere. Moron, deluded, egomaniac, or baldfaced lyin' ... I really can't choose between them anymore. I've really never seen anything remotely like it -- troll with the mathematical standard of a six year old claims that thousands of other growed up people's maths are wrong and he's right. He has to be shittin' us. I guess that's why he's a vexatious troll.

Petes يقول...

(Tragedy is, there's easily explicable reasons why he's made the stupid mistake he has, to do with the definition of polynomial factorisation, but he can't countenance the loss of face involved, so he'll keep on makin' his outrageous claims no matter how stupid he looks, or how many authorities contradict him ... in his eyes the alternative is worse. So he'll keep bein' vexatious).

   Lee C.  ―  U.S.A.    يقول...
أزال أحد مشرفي المدونة هذا التعليق.
Petes يقول...

(I wonder even now if the troll really believes what he just said. That when line 5 of an algorithm says "divide out" by one of the factors just calculated, that it doesn't matter that the factor isn't actually a factor. Apologies to everyone else for continuin' to use up commnt space bein' so incredulous. It's just that it's hard to fathom how somebody so moronic is capable of typin' English words, rather than jes' droolin' on their keyboard).

Petes يقول...

Aha. Check. The troll is back to just ignorin' his own incredible, moronic claims, and declarin' victory instead. Standard troll fare. LOL.

   Lee C.  ―  U.S.A.    يقول...
أزال أحد مشرفي المدونة هذا التعليق.
   Lee C.  ―  U.S.A.    يقول...
أزال أحد مشرفي المدونة هذا التعليق.
Petes يقول...

[Troll]: "In point of fact, most folks would hardly notice [the improper factoring done on line 4]"

Even if "most folks" meant morons and children under six, the troll would still be wrong. Most folks with an ounce of common sense know that the factors on line 4 are correct because when you multiply them out like this:

b(a - b) = (a)b - (b)b = ab - b²

... which was what was originally factored. Children under ten can do that.

"Most folk", including many morons, know that when you multiply two things together, those two things are factors of the result. That's the definition of a factor. Even morons know that. Our resident vexatious troll don't know it though. (Or he does, but can't face it).

Petes يقول...

"I take it we should assume you'll not be goin’ over to Wiki and tellin’ ‘em that both their general factoring page and their more specific factoring page on the difference of two squares are wrong?"

They're not wrong. The troll just misapplied them. I offered a hundred times to explain to the troll where he went wrong. Stupid troll wouldn't listen, though. (Even gave him the answer further up this page, again). Now he's tryin' to make out I'm sayin' Wikipedia's wrong. I never said it, and I'm not sayin' it now. He's the one claimin' Wikipedia is wrong, a claim he has reiterated on this page, as many times before. A simpleton could see from the multiplication in my last comment that the factorisation is correct. Unfortunately, our vexation troll is way, way below simpleton level.

Petes يقول...

What's even more ironic is that I only ever brought up the Wikipedia entry on Mathematical Fallacy as an example of how the steps of deductive logic follow necessarily one from the other. The troll has just amply demonstrated that he never understood that. He's just stated that an error in one step could have been overlooked because it's inconsequential to the next step, even though the output of the earlier step is used directly in the next. Once again the mind boggles at his sheer dumbness.

   Lee C.  ―  U.S.A.    يقول...
أزال أحد مشرفي المدونة هذا التعليق.
   Lee C.  ―  U.S.A.    يقول...
أزال أحد مشرفي المدونة هذا التعليق.
   Lee C.  ―  U.S.A.    يقول...
أزال أحد مشرفي المدونة هذا التعليق.
Petes يقول...

^ Scroll the troll.

The moron thinks he's gonna just repeat the same shit he's been spewin' for 10 months.

If the moron wants to entertain himself, let him take:

c(v - c)

and multiply it up and see what he gets as the product. (Answer for the mathematically challenged: vc - c²). Then he can either choose to either believe that c and (v - c) are factors of that product, as per the definition of factors, or he can believe whatever the hell he wants. Or he can admit he doesn't know how to multiply up c(v - c). Or he can just choose to ignore the challenge. That's his dilemma. He can either be a moron, or a stupid time wastin' troll. It's one or the other at this stage. I won't be hangin' around to see any answer or none. I'm long past carin'. For a long time I offered to show him where he went wrong in his reasonin', but now he can wallow in his ignorance.

   Lee C.  ―  U.S.A.    يقول...
أزال أحد مشرفي المدونة هذا التعليق.
Petes يقول...

(On the original thread, the troll multiplied up those factors and got the right answer -- the one that implied he was wrong about the factorisation. Then he back-pedalled and said the product wasn't what he'd said it was. Ever since then, he just point blank refuses to do the multiplication. He's the quintessential Jesuit that won't look through Galileo's telescope for fear of seein' what he insists isn't there. Except in this case he's already had a peek and can't deal with what he saw. I have honestly never encountered such persistent, wilful ignorance in any human being.)

   Lee C.  ―  U.S.A.    يقول...
أزال أحد مشرفي المدونة هذا التعليق.
Petes يقول...

Ahh. Troll's back and he's confused. Something about offers and counteroffers. Only offer I'm makin' is that I'm henceforth gonna scroll his inane shit. Ain't nobody left in any doubt about his lyin' stupidity. Since he can't be reformed, that's job done. Ciao.

Max Factor يقول...

c(v - c) = ?

   Lee C.  ―  U.S.A.    يقول...
أزال أحد مشرفي المدونة هذا التعليق.
   Lee C.  ―  U.S.A.    يقول...
أزال أحد مشرفي المدونة هذا التعليق.
Max Factor يقول...

Then, by the same (stupid) token:

vc - c² is also equal to zero.

Zero is not a difference of two squares.

Therefore the factors of vc - c² are not (√(vc)+c)(√(vc)-c) as the troll claimed.

   Lee C.  ―  U.S.A.    يقول...
أزال أحد مشرفي المدونة هذا التعليق.
Petes يقول...

Hah. Troll got hoisted by his own petard at 9:01 PM. Instant reaction -- flings more troll shit to save face. Quel surprise.

   Lee C.  ―  U.S.A.    يقول...
أزال أحد مشرفي المدونة هذا التعليق.
   Lee C.  ―  U.S.A.    يقول...
أزال أحد مشرفي المدونة هذا التعليق.
Petes يقول...

^ Dolt

   Lee C.  ―  U.S.A.    يقول...
أزال أحد مشرفي المدونة هذا التعليق.
Petes يقول...

[Troll]: "You confuse factoring with division which is an arithmetic function."

So does Wikipedia. And everyone with an ounce of mathematical nous. Only in Troll-land does factoring involve magical rules that have to be Jesuitically parsed from carefully selected web pages.

"c(v - c) = ?" has an algebraic solution that involves no knowledge of the specific values involved. Were it not so, there would be no such thing as algebra. That's the hump that most 8 year olds have to get over in order to embrace the concept of symbolic manipulation in mathematics. The troll has yet to make that leap.

And now we may leave him to his idiocy.

   Lee C.  ―  U.S.A.    يقول...
أزال أحد مشرفي المدونة هذا التعليق.
   Lee C.  ―  U.S.A.    يقول...
أزال المؤلف هذا التعليق.
   Lee C.  ―  U.S.A.    يقول...
أزال المؤلف هذا التعليق.
   Lee C.  ―  U.S.A.    يقول...
أزال أحد مشرفي المدونة هذا التعليق.
   Lee C.  ―  U.S.A.    يقول...
أزال المؤلف هذا التعليق.
Peter Tande يقول...

This thread is most incredibly amusing for the neutral observer.

   Lee C.  ―  U.S.A.       يقول...

 
      "…incredibly amusing…"

I can see how that'd be.  Too bad Petes has decided to hold his cards, isn't it?
Fear not though; he'll try to resurrect the fuss in another thread one of these days.  He needs an audience, and it's the lack of audience that's dimmed his enthusiasm.  At some point the gnawing at him will get to be too much, and he'll come back at it again.  He's just on hold now; he's not actually given it up.