الخميس، مايو 05، 2011

Assassinations in Iraq

The assassins strike quietly, often just after dark, as Iraq’s political and military leaders speed home surrounded by armed guards.

The dead in April alone included generals, police commanders, a deputy minister and the head of Iraq’s tax agency. The wounded included a member of parliament, a judge and the head of the national theater, survivors of attacks on their motorcades.

Among 50 targeted killings last month, most were carried out by gunmen using silenced weapons, according to Iraq’s Interior Ministry, which oversees the country’s police forces.

Assassinations are not an entirely new feature of Iraq’s political landscape. But a stealthy string of killings that began last month has given them new prominence, shaking Iraqis’ confidence in their government’s ability to protect them and raising questions about the country’s security just months before the last U.S. troops are scheduled to withdraw.

More

هناك 381 تعليقًا:

‏1 – 200 من 381   ‏›أحدث   ‏أحدث»
Petes يقول...

Freddie Starr ate my hamster!

Petes يقول...

Uh, Freddie Starr told me to say that :-)

Petes يقول...

From previous thread (where Blogger just refuses to accept this comment, so trying again here):

[Oytalian]:

From the Catholic Catechism in use in England and Wales (published by the Catholic Truth Society):

"327. Q: Which are the four sins crying to heaven for vengeance?
A: The four sins crying to heaven for vengeance are: 1. WILFUL MURDER. 2. The sin of Sodom. 3. Oppression of the poor. 4. Defrauding labourers of their wages".

Where's my "own invention", lying clowneen ???



Have ye had some kind of "Road to Damascus" experience? Ye quoted that same passage in a comment on 19-Mar-2006, but on that occasion included the year of publication of said catechism -- 1889 -- it presumably being the so-called "Penny Catechism" summary of the catechism of Trent. You furthermore contended in the same comment that "at long last, after the Vatican Council in the Sixties of last century the Four Sins vanished from the catechism, out of politically correct deference to, precisely, Sin No. 2!".

I pointed out to you by reply that they have not vanished at all, but are there exactly in paragraph 1867 of JPII's 1992 universal catechism. And since said JP2 was beatified only this last Sunday in the presence of over a million of yer Oytalian compatriots and at least one Oirishman, it would be a brave man who would claim that his catechism was not the teaching of the universal church. Nevertheless, you did exactly that in a subsequent reply:

"And, about ‘dem sodomites’ and the present position of the Catholic Church, what you wrote (PeteS, 04.06.06 - 5:33 am & 5:38 am, 04.14.06 - 3:25 pm) is, precisely, “poppycock”. See the ‘CC Catechism – Compendium’ I already quoted, which (like the pre-Vatican II penny catechisms) represents the actual pastoral position of the Church (differently from Article 1867 of the complete one), where the “the four sins crying to heaven for vengeance” have disappeared, including No. 2 dealing with sodomy (and with your sheep-shagging! – Well, in your individual case I suspect it may rather be ape-shagging…)."

But now ye are back to quoting de Penny Catechism. One suspects the weight of all those indefensible positions ye have been defending for years has final caused something to snap in yer toiny Oytalian moind. Or, more likely, the very passage ye refuted when it suited ye (regarding homosexuality), is now yer primary argument (regarding wilful murder) and ye have been caught out in the selectivity of yer position. Who's de clowneen now, me foine Oytalian flip-flopper?

Petes يقول...

From previous thread...

[Oytalian]:

From the Catholic Catechism in use in England and Wales (published by the Catholic Truth Society):

"327. Q: Which are the four sins crying to heaven for vengeance?
A: The four sins crying to heaven for vengeance are: 1. WILFUL MURDER. 2. The sin of Sodom. 3. Oppression of the poor. 4. Defrauding labourers of their wages".

Where's my "own invention", lying clowneen ???



Have ye had some kind of "Road to Damascus" experience? Ye quoted that same passage in a comment on 19-Mar-2006, but on that occasion included the year of publication of said catechism -- 1889 -- it presumably being the so-called "Penny Catechism" summary of the catechism of Trent. You furthermore contended in the same comment that "at long last, after the Vatican Council in the Sixties of last century the Four Sins vanished from the catechism, out of politically correct deference to, precisely, Sin No. 2!".

I pointed out to you by reply that they have not vanished at all, but are there exactly in paragraph 1867 of JPII's 1992 universal catechism. And since said JP2 was beatified only this last Sunday in the presence of over a million of yer Oytalian compatriots and at least one Oirishman, it would be a brave man who would claim that his catechism was not the teaching of the universal church. Nevertheless, you did exactly that in a subsequent reply:

"And, about ‘dem sodomites’ and the present position of the Catholic Church, what you wrote (PeteS, 04.06.06 - 5:33 am & 5:38 am, 04.14.06 - 3:25 pm) is, precisely, poppycock. See the ‘CC Catechism Compendium’ I already quoted, which (like the pre-Vatican II penny catechisms) represents the actual pastoral position of the Church (differently from Article 1867 of the complete one), where the “the four sins crying to heaven for vengeance have disappeared, including No. 2 dealing with sodomy (and with your sheep-shagging! Well, in your individual case I suspect it may rather be ape-shagging)."

But now ye are back to quoting de Penny Catechism. One suspects the weight of all those indefensible positions ye have been defending for years has final caused something to snap in yer toiny Oytalian moind. Or, more likely, the very passage ye refuted when it suited ye (regarding homosexuality), is now yer primary argument (regarding wilful murder) and ye have been caught out in the selectivity of yer position. Who's de clowneen now, me foine Oytalian flip-flopper?

Petes يقول...

From previous thread...

[Oytalian]:

From the Catholic Catechism in use in England and Wales (published by the Catholic Truth Society):

"327. Q: Which are the four sins crying to heaven for vengeance?
A: The four sins crying to heaven for vengeance are: 1. WILFUL MURDER. 2. The sin of Sodom. 3. Oppression of the poor. 4. Defrauding labourers of their wages".


Where's my "own invention", lying clowneen ???


Have ye had some kind of "Road to Damascus" experience? Ye quoted that same passage in a comment on 19-Mar-2006, but on that occasion included the year of publication of said catechism -- 1889 -- it presumably being the so-called "Penny Catechism" summary of the catechism of Trent. You furthermore contended in the same comment that "at long last, after the Vatican Council in the Sixties of last century the Four Sins vanished from the catechism, out of politically correct deference to, precisely, Sin No. 2!".

I pointed out to you by reply that they have not vanished at all, but are there exactly in paragraph 1867 of JPII's 1992 universal catechism. And since said JP2 was beatified only this last Sunday in the presence of over a million of yer Oytalian compatriots and at least one Oirishman, it would be a brave man who would claim that his catechism was not the teaching of the universal church. Nevertheless, you did exactly that in a subsequent reply:

"And, about ‘dem sodomites’ and the present position of the Catholic Church, what you wrote (PeteS, 04.06.06 - 5:33 am & 5:38 am, 04.14.06 - 3:25 pm) is, precisely, poppycock. See the ‘CC Catechism Compendium’ I already quoted, which (like the pre-Vatican II penny catechisms) represents the actual pastoral position of the Church (differently from Article 1867 of the complete one), where the the four sins crying to heaven for vengeance have disappeared, including No. 2 dealing with sodomy (and with your sheep-shagging! Well, in your individual case I suspect it may rather be ape-shagging)."

But now ye are back to quoting de Penny Catechism. One suspects the weight of all those indefensible positions ye have been defending for years has final caused something to snap in yer toiny Oytalian moind. Or, more likely, the very passage ye refuted when it suited ye (regarding homosexuality), is now yer primary argument (regarding wilful murder) and ye have been caught out in the selectivity of yer position. Who's de clowneen now, me foine Oytalian flip-flopper?

Petes يقول...

From previous thread, where this comment just refuses to post... here chopped into some continuations:

[Oytalian]:

From the Catholic Catechism in use in England and Wales (published by the Catholic Truth Society):

"327. Q: Which are the four sins crying to heaven for vengeance?
A: The four sins crying to heaven for vengeance are: 1. WILFUL MURDER. 2. The sin of Sodom. 3. Oppression of the poor. 4. Defrauding labourers of their wages".


Where's my "own invention", lying clowneen ???


Have ye had some kind of "Road to Damascus" experience? Ye quoted that same passage in a comment on 19-Mar-2006, but on that occasion included the year of publication of said catechism -- 1889 -- it presumably being the so-called "Penny Catechism" summary of the catechism of Trent. You furthermore contended in the same comment that "at long last, after the Vatican Council in the Sixties of last century the Four Sins vanished from the catechism, out of politically correct deference to, precisely, Sin No. 2!".

I pointed out to you by reply that they have not vanished at all, but are there exactly in paragraph 1867 of JPII's 1992 universal catechism. And since said JP2 was beatified only this last Sunday in the presence of over a million of yer Oytalian compatriots and at least one Oirishman, it would be a brave man who would claim that his catechism was not the teaching of the universal church. Nevertheless, you did exactly that in a subsequent reply.

con'td...

Petes يقول...

...cont'd

"And, about ‘dem sodomites’ and the present position of the Catholic Church, what you wrote (PeteS, 04.06.06 - 5:33 am & 5:38 am, 04.14.06 - 3:25 pm) is, precisely, poppycock. See the ‘CC Catechism Compendium’ I already quoted, which (like the pre-Vatican II penny catechisms) represents the actual pastoral position of the Church (differently from Article 1867 of the complete one), where the the four sins crying to heaven for vengeance have disappeared, including No. 2 dealing with sodomy (and with your sheep-shagging! Well, in your individual case I suspect it may rather be ape-shagging)." (Oytalian, April 2006).

But now ye are back to quoting de Penny Catechism. One suspects the weight of all those indefensible positions ye have been defending for years has final caused something to snap in yer toiny Oytalian moind. Or, more likely, the very passage ye refuted when it suited ye (regarding homosexuality), is now yer primary argument (regarding wilful murder) and ye have been caught out in the selectivity of yer position. Who's de clowneen now, me foine Oytalian flip-flopper?

Petes يقول...

P.S. Would this be a good time to mention that among the bishops that I saw assembled for the aforementioned beatification was the newly elected Maronite Patriarch of Antioch, Beshara Rai. The resignation of his predecessor, Boutros Nasrallah Sfeir, was accepted by Pope Benedict XVI back in March, and Rai's election ratified. For someone who allegedly doesn't accept that the Pope is the head of the universal and the particular churches, he certainly made a good job of blending in with all the other bishops of the Catholic church there present.

Petes يقول...

Dear Oytalian,

Can I interrupt your gloom over the recent alterations to Osama bin Laden's visage, to call your attention to this feature in Der Spiegel about the number of terrorist activities he has inspired since 9/11:

http://www.spiegel.de/flash/flash-25813.html

You might note that the single entry on Iraq mentions "countless" attacks against civilians there. I wonder if these meet your criteria for "willful murder"? We already know that you do not include the killing of American troops by them as murder.

RhusLancia يقول...

on a similar note...

Papik's Waterboy, previous thread: "to shoot a prisoner twice in the back of the head is, as everybody knows, a WAR CRIME, isn't it ???"

Was it not you yerself who, some time ago, dreamt of the day when you'd put a .9 (cm) slug into the back of my very own head? What would make that not murder, or a war crime? That I am an American, that my crimes are greater than bin Laden's, or that you would put only one slug there, not two ???

RhusLancia يقول...

Dear, Sweet, Kind, Gracious An Italian: do you have anything bad to say of the murders of Iraqi officers, police, ministers, and etc, the subject of Zeyad's post? Or, these being against the post-Saddam, post-American Iraqis, do they delight you in a way reminiscent of your long days underneath Papik's desk?

غير معرف يقول...

@ Pete$, various blatherings on the murder of Osama by Obama, from this and the previous thread.

You wrote: "I think they went in with the intent of killing him and they did just that"; then you wrote: "premeditated murder is NOT condoned. And if such was the case with bin Laden [as it definitely was], then I don't condone it either".

Then you thought yer Ahmehwican fwiends would criticise you, and quoted instead, AGAINT yerself, a risible statement by some Ahmehwican, "we do not have enough information to determine whether the killing of Bin Laden was lawful".

It's OK to be a clown and a liar, but some consistency, please...
do ye suffer from Multiple Personality Disorder, or are ye so demented as to forgit what ye yerself stated two mins before ???
Lol !!!

An Italian.

غير معرف يقول...

@ Pete$, RE: his comical wrigglings about da Kathrick Catecheesm.

Oh disingenuous halfwit, the four sins crying to heaven for vengeance are STILL THERE, in the universal Catechism you often quoted; the only difference, which is totally irrelevant, being that in the international version in English the "for vengeance" was taken away, in order not to sound fundies and to please the world (which is a bit idiotic, of course: for what are those four sins "crying to heaven" ? For a blessing, lol?).
That said, your blatherin' shows itself as especially captious and groundless, me wee Oyrish satanist...

غير معرف يقول...

@ Rattard Rhus, 1:51 AM.

Dunno who "Papik" is, sorry.

As for your bogeyman Obama (not Osama), being a cold-blooded murderer he could very well be a Marxist of the Stalinist persuasion. Maybe you were right, lol!

I had read the article linked to by Zeyad.

As it makes clear, in US-'liberated' Iraq, run by the bunch of thieves and little tyrants the Ahmehwicans and their Eyewanian friends put in the place of a single tyrant, those same gentlemen are vying for power looking forward to the day youse Apes are supposed to go.
And, being 'fwee'n'democwatic' gentlemen, chosen on purpose by you wise Ahmehwicans (& by your Iran pals), each of them tends to have those he regards as pawns of somebody else bumped off...
At least, in Saddam's time, he was the ONLY one having people bumped off. But this is the GWEAT improvement brought by the glorious invading LIBEWATORS, right?

It seems you're proud of it, dear Rattard, since you campaigned for Libya to end up even worse...

Petes يقول...

LOL Oytalian -- ye say it's ME that's doin' the comical wrigglin?? Here's exactly what you said in 2006:

"At long last, after the Vatican Council in the Sixties of last century the Four Sins vanished from the catechism, out of politically correct deference to, precisely, Sin No. 2. I hope we’ll get the lofty explanation for such mysterious disappearance from our favourite Irish Catholic theologian, PeteS"

And now you say they have NOT disappeared, but it is only the "cry for vengeance" that has disappeared, and not only that but its disappearance is "totally irrelevant".

It seems like you have had some kind of Damascene conversion. Be careful or next you'll stop calling for cold-blooded murders of bin Laden detractors.

Petes يقول...

[Oytalian joker]: "Then you thought yer Ahmehwican fwiends would criticise you, and quoted instead, AGAINT yerself, a risible statement by some Ahmehwican, "we do not have enough information to determine whether the killing of Bin Laden was lawful".

Clearly you think we DO have such information. No problem -- tell me what it is and I will be happy to consider it. On the other hand, you already claimed to know the number of bullets and their entry and exit points, so please provide proof that you were present at the autopsy or have the results therefrom. This should be good...

RhusLancia يقول...

Dear, Sweet, Kind, Gracious, and not at all Hypocritical An Italian: 'Papik' is the nickname given to your missing dinner guest by his foreign nurses. Few will believe you don't know this, given how you long for him and his not at all naughty premeditated murder of uppity Libyan civilians.

Petes يقول...

Some parts of the US make Oirland look merely bad, rather than Armageddon-like.


US housing double-dip: it's arrived, and the home buyer credit is to blame...

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2011/05/the-double-dips-official-home-prices-fall-to-new-low/238423/

29 absolutely crazy statistics about the housing crisis:

http://endoftheamericandream.com/archives/should-you-buy-a-home-in-2011-check-out-these-29-absolutely-crazy-statistics-about-the-housing-crisis

Lynnette In Minnesota يقول...

[Italian] I had read the article linked to by Zeyad.

As it makes clear, in US-'liberated' Iraq, run by the bunch of thieves and little tyrants the Ahmehwicans and their Eyewanian friends put in the place of a single tyrant, those same gentlemen are vying for power looking forward to the day youse Apes are supposed to go.


Really? Hmmm...ignoring the fact that it was Iraqis who elected their government...I could have sworn the article hinted strongly at others outside the government, rather than some strange internal fued. I'll have to go back and read it again.

Bruno يقول...

The Iraqi Parliament’s Speaker, Usama al-Nujeify, has said on Thursday that the Iraqi government “is the only power to decide the withdrawal of the U.S.
forces from Iraq in their defined schedule, or their stay in the country,” adding that the Parliament’s duty is to ratify or reject the agreements, in such a way that serves the Iraqi people.

“The government is the power that shall decide the withdrawal of the American forces or their stay in Iraq, according to their schedule,” Nujeify told a news conference, attended by Aswat al-Iraq news agency.

“According to my own information, there are no negotiations about the stay of the American forces in Iraq after their scheduled withdrawal time,” he added."

http://en.aswataliraq.info/Default1.aspx?page=article_page&id=142370&l=1

   Lee C.  ―  U.S.A.       يقول...

 
      "The Iraqi Parliament’s Speaker, Usama al-Nujeify,
      has said on Thursday that the Iraqi government ‘is
      the only power to decide the withdrawal of the U.S.
      forces from Iraq…’.
"

So, they're not going to let you and the ersatz ‘Italian’ decide that question for them then?  How utterly presumptuous of them.

Bruno يقول...

LEE must be gnashing his teeth in rage about now. But, he's trying to put a good face on it.

Myself, I'll believe that the murkins are gone when they actually leave. Because, you see, the murkins don't actually WANT to leave:

"US military planners are discussing keeping thousands of troops in Iraq past the withdrawal deadline of December 31, despite President Barack Obama’s promises to pull out all US forces this year.

But, amid mounting frustration in the Pentagon, Nouri al-Maliki, Iraqi prime minister, has not requested any extension to the timetable and formal talks have not yet begun.

“The Maliki government need to figure out where they come down on this,” said a US military official"

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/16e5daf2-70f2-11e0-962a-00144feabdc0.html

Bruno يقول...

LOL! Don't y'all just love that precious "The Maliki government need to figure out where they come down on this" quote? LOL, it's as if the murkins clean forgot that they went and signed a withdrawal agreement mandating an American withdrawal from Iraq with said "Maliki government".

I'm guessing that the "Maliki government comes down" round about on that withdrawal agreement.

(Of course, there will be some interesting times as Dec 31 approaches. Should be interesting.)

   Lee C.  ―  U.S.A.       يقول...

   
      "Because, you see, the murkins don't actually
      WANT to leave:
"

Did you not notice who won the last election for President of the United States?  Did you not notice that he campaigned on a platform promisng an end to our committment of combat troops to maintain order in Iraq?
We're pulling our troops out ‘cause we decided it was comin’ time to cut the Iraqi loose.  Thats's what Obama was elected to do.  We gave them their chance; it's up to them to either seize the opportunity or fumble it.
Our withdrawal was decided by our last Presidential election.  The only thing that can stop it, or at least slow it down a little, is they ask us to stay on a little while longer.

Petes يقول...

Well, well, who'd a thunk it! Chinese parachutes have dropped from the sky in Libya after all...

... in the form of Chinese Type 84 Model A scatterable anti-tank cluster mines, which are deployed on mini parachutes.

Will our scumbag Oytalian Muammar-lover welcome or condemn them, or will he claim insufficient evidence?

Bruno يقول...

[LEE] "Our withdrawal was decided by our last Presidential election."

*cough*cough*

Iraqi politicians call for troops withdrawal timetable
10/05/2007 - 13:25:18

A majority of Iraqi politicians have signed draft legislation that calls for a timetable for the withdrawal of foreign troops from Iraq. They also demanded a freeze on the number of such troops already in the country. The legislation was being discussed even as US politicians were locked in a dispute with the White House over their call to start reducing the size of the US force here in the coming months.

Draft Iraqi legislation, drafted by the parliamentary bloc loyal to anti-American Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr, was signed by 144 members of the 275-member house, according to Nassar al-Rubaie, the leader of the Sadrist bloc. The Sadrist bloc, which sees the US-led forces as an occupying army, has pushed similar bills before, but this was the first time it had received the support of a majority in parliament.

http://www.breakingnews.ie/archives/2007/0510/world/iraqi-politicians-call-for-troops-withdrawal-timetable-310014.html

McCain Responds to Maliki's Timetable for Troop Withdrawal from Iraq
July 8, 2008 8:57 PM -

The U.S. will withdraw its troops from Iraq "with honor, not according to a set timetable," John McCain said today, in response to Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki issuing a statement that said the two countries should "put a timetable on their withdrawal."

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-502443_162-4243139-502443.html

2011 Iraq withdrawal reaffirmed by Gates
Sunday, December 14, 2008

Balad, Iraq -- In an unannounced trip to Iraq on Saturday, Defense Secretary Robert Gates met with the top U.S. military commander, Gen. Ray Odierno, and reiterated the pledge made in an agreement with the Iraqi government to withdraw all U.S. troops by the end of 2011.

http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/news-4/1229257827133410.xml&coll=2

Inauguration of Barack Obama - "The inauguration of Barack Obama as the 44th President of the United States took place on Tuesday, January 20, 2009."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inauguration_of_Barack_Obama

It appears LEE has some top secret information as to how Obama was preznit before being inaugurated or how it was actually him that signed the withdrawal agreement or ... or ... hey, did ya notice that them Maronites are Christians, after all? How bout that!

[LEE] "The only thing that can stop it, or at least slow it down a little, is they ask us to stay on a little while longer."

Aye, and there's the rub. The troops aren't withdrawn until they're withdrawn. We will soon see the true independence of Maliki by whether or not he asks for an "extension" to the withdrawal timetable or not. (All the murkins are, of course, hoping and praying that he will.)

   Lee C.  ―  U.S.A.       يقول...

 
And your point is supposed to be what, Bruno?  You making the point that Iraqi politicians from the minority parties were ordering our actions in Iraq?  They're the puppetmasters and we're the puppets?  That supposed to be your point?
I notice you quoted John McCain.  Perhaps your point is supposed to be that the American politician who loses the election sets American policy?

Bruno يقول...

[LEE] "Perhaps your point is supposed to be that the American politician who loses the election sets American policy?"

*Ahem*

10/05/2007 - A majority of Iraqi politicians have signed draft legislation that calls for a timetable for the withdrawal of foreign troops from Iraq.

and

2011 Iraq withdrawal reaffirmed by Gates - Sunday, December 14, 2008

and

"The inauguration of Barack Obama as the 44th President of the United States took place on Tuesday, January 20, 2009."

More intelligent readers will get the drift.

Bruno يقول...

Meanwhile:

"The visit of Nancy Peloci's delegation comes on the heels of those of US Defence Secretary Robert Gates, of Michael Mullen, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, as well as of House of Representatives Speaker John Boehner and Army Chief of Staff General Martin Dempsey. US top military and political leaders have been pressing Iraqi decision makers to agree to an extended US military presence in Iraq beyond the end-of-the-year deadline for a complete US withdrawal from Iraqi territory.

http://www.arabmonitor.info/news/dettaglio.php?idnews=33773&lang=en

   Lee C.  ―  U.S.A.       يقول...

   
      "*Ahem*" etc.

Yes, and…?  What's supposed to be your point?
How does any of this in any way tend to establish your contention that the Evil Merkins WANT to keep combat troops in Iraq?  (emphasis by Bruno in original)

I don't think intelligent readers will see it drifting that way.

             ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
      "US top military and political leaders have been
      pressing Iraqi decision makers to agree to an
      extended US military presence in Iraq beyond the
      end-of-the-year deadline
"

This illustrates why you almost always need better sources.  Your Arab Monitor apparently does not understand that in the United States, ‘top military leaders’ do not set policy.  (An established fact that General Stanley McChrystal forgot to inculcate among his staff, and for which lapse he paid a price.)  We run things differently than they do.  And neither they nor you seem to fully grasp that.  As for the ‘top political leaders’, those are the ones from the party which didn't win the presidential election, partly on account of John McCain, their candidate, kept saying things ‘bout keeping troops in Iraq indefinitely.  And that was something Americans did not want. 

   Lee C.  ―  U.S.A.       يقول...

   
Just turned on the right-winger radio and I'm catchin’ Sean Hannity raggin’ ‘bout Obama gettin’ Osama.  Week later and he's still on it.  They just almost can't stand that.

Petes يقول...

Sean Hannity is a jumped-up mean-spirited little fascist. And I say that as a conservative.

Bruno يقول...

"US officials have been publicly escalating the pressure on Iraq to “decide” whether or not US troops will remain beyond December. The fact that Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki flat out ruled this out has gone largely ignored by officials, who are still waiting for an answer, but which they of course mean a “yes.”

Iraqi officials say this probably won’t be forthcoming, saying the current situation makes such a vote “politically untouchable” for the next several months. Parliamentary speaker al-Nujaifi says Iraq is in “no hurry” for such a decision.

Not that the US warnings that they need to decide “within weeks” has changed anything. The Obama Administration seems to be making no moves toward reducing troop levels in the near term, and seem content to wait for the approval they demand.

Such approval would be difficult for Iraq to justify. Maliki has repeatedly ruled out extending the presence, and Moqtada al-Sadr, the head of a key bloc, has threatened open rebellion in this happens. The more interesting question is what the Obama Administration will do if approval isn’t granted, because there seems to be little political support for leaving, whether permission is given to stay or not.

http://news.antiwar.com/2011/05/09/us-officials-eager-to-stay-but-iraqs-okay-not-expected-soon/

Bruno يقول...

[LEE] "What's supposed to be your point?"

... that you lose again? Since it's quite obvious that the withdrawal timetable has little to do with Obama. Unless time works backwards where you live.

Which could be possible, I admit. LEE would be a likely candidate for some sort of Lovecraftian backwater redolent of the Old Ones.

[LEE] "How does any of this in any way tend to establish your contention that the Evil Merkins WANT to keep combat troops in Iraq? "

Those extracts establish my contention that chronologically, Obama couldn't have had anything to do with the withdrawal timetable. (Your protestations to the contrary.)

The above post @ 1:21 by yours truly establishes murkin hopes for an "extended stay".

RhusLancia يقول...

I wonder when the US gubmint will release the videos of OBL Skyping with An Italian? Can't be long now...

Bruno يقول...

Surely there is an oil leak somehwere that Rhusty must fix?

   Lee C.  ―  U.S.A.       يقول...

   
      "Those extracts establish my contention that
      chronologically, Obama couldn't have had anything
      to do with the withdrawal timetable.
"

Ah, well, that's an entirely different point than you were makin’ earlier.  Earlier you were arguing that the Evil Merkins WANT to keep combat troops in Iraq.  (Original capitalization of the word for emphasis by none other than your very own self.)

      "The above post @ 1:21 by yours truly establishes
      murkin hopes for an ‘extended stay’.
"

No, it does not.  The source is not credibile and even if they were, it's entirely conclusory and all it establishes is that you're not the only screwball out there.  But, that's not news.

   Lee C.  ―  U.S.A.       يقول...

 
      "Sean Hannity is a jumped-up mean-spirited
      little fascist.
"

He's got nothin’ on Glenn Beck.  More to the point though; it appears that they've concluded that they have about a year and a half to sell their new faerie tale history in which Dubya killed Osama bin Laden.  And, they're gonna try to sell it.
I believe this is gonna prove to be a mistake.  It'll sell among the tea-baggers; no question but that they'll happily buy it.  But, to the rest of the country, to independent and swing voters, that'll only make them look even more radical than they already look.

Bruno يقول...

[lee] "Ah, well, that's an entirely different point than you were makin’ earlier. "

But, it is the point you were making in the hopes to derail my point.

Alas, it appears that you got poked in the eye for your efforts, and sadly, the argument still stands.

Bruno يقول...

Lies, all LIES:

"It is looking increasingly likely that American troops will stay in Iraq beyond December 2011 scheduled date of withdrawal for the US military – a prospect that appears to be gaining bipartisan support in Congress.

One congressman suggested Thursday that the politically acceptable size of the force that would remain in Iraq “could be 20,000.”

Senior US officials have recently expressed concern ..."

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Military/2011/0217/Iraq-war-why-US-military-withdrawal-might-not-happen-in-2011

Time for LEE to tackle Congress and smack them upside the head for daring to air un-LEE-esque views!

   Lee C.  ―  U.S.A.       يقول...

 
      "But, it is the point you were making…"

No, it is not; it's barely even related to my point, which was that our withdrawal of combat troops from Iraq was finally, irrevocably decided by the election of Obama, who was publicly committed to that withdrawal.  The American people could have chosen John McCain instead, who was committed to leaving the term of our stay indefinite.  If Americans had wanted to keep combat troops in Iraq they'd have picked McCain instead. 
I have no argument to make on the subject of who drafted or negotiated the current schedule for that withdrawal.  I just don't care.

Marcus يقول...

New air-strikes at "command and control structures" in Tripoli. Looks to me like they're trying to whack Khadaffi, plain and simple, and aren't even trying too hard to pretend otherwise. It's hard to argue that bombing raids on compounds in Tripoli was sanctioned by the UN resolution, vague as it was.

   Lee C.  ―  U.S.A.       يقول...

 
      "Looks to me like they're trying to whack Khadaffi,
      plain and simple, and aren't even trying too hard to
      pretend otherwise.
"

And it's hard to blame that one on the Evil Merkins.  I'm good with whackin’ Khadhafi and blamin’ it on someone else.  Works for me.

Bruno يقول...

[lee] "our withdrawal of combat troops from Iraq was finally, irrevocably decided by the election of Obama"

LOL @ LEE.

Nice squirming, sonny. Should I let you off the hook, now?

Bruno يقول...

Although, I do concede that the American people "want out".

Whether that's due to the American people finally waking up to the moral disaster that invading Iraq was ... or the thousands of US troops maimed and killed, and mountains of dollars flushed down the loo ... is another debate.

Petes يقول...

[Rhus]: "I wonder when the US gubmint will release the videos of OBL Skyping with An Italian? Can't be long now..."

Too late, the Evil Empire (a.k.a. Microsoft) just announced the purchase of Skype for $8.5b this lunchtime. Sean Hannity will shortly announce that it's to cover up the records of OBL skyping Obama (from the land of his birth).

   Lee C.  ―  U.S.A.       يقول...

 
      "Should I let you off the hook, now?"

Oh, hell no.  You're just embarrassing yourself here.  I'm all too happy to have you continue with it.  Certainly do not want to see you stop.  Do carry on.  Works for me. 

   Lee C.  ―  U.S.A.       يقول...

 
Only ten minutes left on your work clock Bruno.  And I'm all in favor of having you embarrass yourself some more.  Do hop on in there again.

Marcus يقول...

Pete: "Microsoft) just announced the purchase of Skype for $8.5b this lunchtime."

Wow! That's a hefty increase in price. Swedish Niklas Zennström with Danish partner Janus Friis who constructed Skype (and before it Kazaa and later Joost) sold it in 2005 to Ebay at about $300-400 million. There was an initial price at about $300m with some clause guaranteeing them additional money based on future profits. Then Ebay in 2009 sold 65% to a collection of venture capitalism firms for $1.9b. And now one and a half years later Microsoft pays $8.5b.

What are they planning one has to ask? Include it into Windows or integrate it with MSN or something?

Seems like a risky investment if they plan to just run it as a stand alone application. The moment they try to raise fees to capitalise on the investment there's a market for some new solution to appear.

On that topic, the market value of quite a few Internet hypes seem blown out of proportion (again). The value of Facebook for instance - what is it now, some $85b?. Sure, it's a success, but how do they plan to make enough money out of it to justify its supposed value? Their income is basically from advertisment, but does that really generate enough income, or hopes of future income, to justify the current "market value"?

Marcus يقول...

Lee: "And it's hard to blame that one on the Evil Merkins. I'm good with whackin’ Khadhafi and blamin’ it on someone else. Works for me."

Right, that'd fall on the Brits and the French, who seem the most eager to pursue this endeavor.

And, while I would not be very sad to see Khadaffi go, was that really mandated by the UN resolution? I think not. Is it then legal to try to snuff him out with bombs? I think not.

That said it would always come down to this. Regime change was what was sought from the get go. The BS about protecting civvies was just to get the PeteS's among us to feel cozy enough to support this war. And, for that matter, the likes of the Swedish government who sent planes that still fly around down there with little to look out for except engine faliure and without a mandate to do any real fighting.

What on earth they're doing down there is beyond me. They cannot fire against any ground target and for sure Khadaffi will not get any planes in the air. So they fly around and hope not to crash and hope this whole deal will prove Jas 39 Gripen to be seen as "battle tested". But they won't save even a single Libyan.

   Lee C.  ―  U.S.A.       يقول...

 
      "But they won't save even a single Libyan."

We, on the other hand have saved at least a few Libyans already; whacked a few others.
I think everybody's gettin’ way overworked on this.  Barely three weeks into the rebellion folks were talkin’ ‘bout a ‘stalemate’.  This is way overreactin’.  ‘Stalemate’ implies that nobody can win, and that's not the case here.  Khadhafi is isolated and slowly being starved out.  He had the advantage early; he couldn't put ‘em away even when he had the advantage, and his position is not going to get stronger with time.  The rebels can win; they can wait 'im out if nothing else, if they just hold on.
Historically, civil wars last much longer than three weeks.  (We're up to what, six weeks now?  But that's not long either.  Folks have gotten spoiled by the images of the three week war against Saddam's forces.)  I mentioned my willingness to see American training the rebel fighters (long as the training took place outside Libya, and I suggested Egypt might be a good venue).  The notion of training up the rebels implies an acceptance of the idea that this might take awhile, take long ‘nuff to train up rebel forces anyway--or, at least, that was my assumption from the start. 

But, I agree that you are mostly doin’ PR work with the Gripen down there.

Marcus يقول...

The rebs can win, yes. But it takes training and probaly also arming from NATO and that NATO pounds any Khadaffi offence from the air in the meantime.

If the NATO mission was cancelled or even it it was curtailed to merely imposing a NFZ then the rebs would be toast, and Khadaffi would prevail.

I think Lee that NATO (or at least the French and the Brits) are not as patient as you seem to be - advocating the training of non-skilled fighters, in Egypt or where ever. They want a quicker end to this, and they figure that blasting 'ol Muammar with a few well placed bombs might do the trick (or maybe intimidating some of his military leaders enough to betray him and cut a deal). Probably they're right too, but it was NOT in the UN resolution.

Petes يقول...

[Marcus]: "Regime change was what was sought from the get go."

It's possible, for sure, but what evidence are you offering?

"The BS about protecting civvies was just to get the PeteS's among us to feel cozy enough to support this war."

Or it wasn't BS. Again, where's the evidence? (And by the way, I will feel just as cozy condemning any overreaching of the original mandate by NATO).

I'm racking my brains to remember who it was who "urged the global community to intervene early and work together when responding to mass atrocities". Oh yeah, I remember -- that was Obama's acceptance speech when receiving the 2009 Nobel Peace Prize. Ok, giving him the prize was a complete joke, but let's give dear auld Obama a bit of credit for believing some of his own BS.

I would say, more than likely, what is happening is that the French and Brits are realising how much all this affair is COSTING. I read somewhere back before the start of all this that the NFZ could cost $200m per week! Now maybe that's a gross exaggeration, and maybe it factored in having a US aircraft carrier slinking around the southern Med clanking its chains, instead of using friendly airbases courtesy of those lovable Oytalians. But someone, somewhere, is feeling the pinch. Let's not forget the Brits are even more broke than the Oirish, and the French would be too if the Oirish hadn't been sold into debt slavery to pay off busted German and French banks (who may yet find that the Oirish, no matter how docile, simply can't pay).

In short, it's quite possible that the Brits and French would love to restrain Gaddafi from bombing his citizens, like a parent constraining a naughty child, but their government accountants are telling them that sitting up all night entertaining the kid's tantrums is getting a bit expensive so, uh, the kid has to die. (I'm not CONDONING such an attitude, obviously).

Petes يقول...

[Marcus]: "What are they [Microsoft] planning one has to ask? Include it [Skype] into Windows or integrate it with MSN or something? "

I would think so. And into whatever their gammy phone OS is (Windoze Mobile or somesuch).

I had a quick check -- Skype revenues last year were a not inconsiderable 800-and-something million smackers. So it's something like a ten-times-revenue valuation. Pretty bubbly, as you say, although not 1999 kind of bubbly yet. (I'm sure we'll get there -- I mean, what's a company to do with $50b dollars burning a hole in its pocket, no real estate worth investing in, the US trying to turn its dollars into toilet paper, and juicy acquisitions to be made and there's no tech-bubble re-inflating and really, it'll be different this time. No, really!).

Or maybe Microsoft have an actual plan to monetise all that mindshare. Who knows.

Lynnette In Minnesota يقول...

[Marcus] And, while I would not be very sad to see Khadaffi go, was that really mandated by the UN resolution?

You mean the resolution that called for the protection of Libya civilians? Hmmm...who is intent on eliminating all those nasty civilian oppositionists to Gaddafi's regime?

[Marcus] New air-strikes at "command and control structures" in Tripoli. Looks to me like they're trying to whack Khadaffi, plain and simple, and aren't even trying too hard to pretend otherwise.

Possibly so. Since he is in charge of the Libyan military one could consider him a "command and control" structure, couldn't one?

P.S. Why on earth anyone would want to waste their time listening to Sean Hannity is beyond me. Seriously, can't you find some nice dandelions to pull, or something? It would be far more productive.

Petes يقول...

SO!!!!! You're part of the eevil liberal plot to de-dandelion the United States of America??!! Don't you realise that dandelions were used by the Founding Fathers (™) as tonics, liver cures, and to settle the digestive tract? No wonder us conservatives are so bilious.

Suomi يقول...

I have look through your some other blog post and I like to thanks for the worthwhile information you have shared. Great job
It’s actually a great and useful piece of info. I’m happy that you shared this useful information with us. Please keep us up to date like this. Thank you for sharing.

   Lee C.  ―  U.S.A.       يقول...

 
Returning again to the Libyan diversion….  I notice that the rebels have begun an offensive on at least three fronts, including a push-back against Khadhafi's seige of Misrata.

Lynnette In Minnesota يقول...

SO!!!!! You're part of the eevil liberal plot to de-dandelion the United States of America??!!

Bwahahahaha! Those little yellow suckers are toast!

Don't you realise that dandelions were used by the Founding Fathers (™) as tonics, liver cures, and to settle the digestive tract? No wonder us conservatives are so bilious.

lol! There now, I thought it was the huge amount of debt that was roiling all those stomachs.

Btw, when my Mom used to make wine, she tried dandelions. It wasn't half bad. :)

And they actually are kind of pretty when they're in the yellow flowering stage. When they get to the seed dispersing stage, not so much. :(

Petes يقول...

So, Newt Gingrich "worked too hard because he loved America so much, and therefore accidentally had an affair". I think I'm paraphrasing that correctly. Spoken like a true Catholic :-(

Marcus يقول...

Pete, on the topic of the Evil Empire (a.k.a. Microsoft), their stock is historically cheap right now, trading at P/E 2010 of 12 and (forecast) P/E 2011 of 9.8. During the years 1989 up until now they've traded at P/E between 11.0 and 68.7. So if the forecast for 2011 is reliable they've never been cheaper.

Money seem to be flowing away from highly profitable but "boring" companies and towards companies with perceived potential that may or may not be realised. Such as my Facebook example above.

IMO this feels like a possibility to get in on a high quality earner at a decent price.

Um Ayad يقول...

Iraq dossier drawn up to make case for war – intelligence officer

A top military intelligence official has said the discredited dossier on Iraq's weapons programme was drawn up "to make the case for war", flatly contradicting persistent claims to the contrary by the Blair government, and in particular by Alastair Campbell, the former prime minister's chief spin doctor.

In hitherto secret evidence to the Chilcot inquiry, Major General Michael Laurie said: "We knew at the time that the purpose of the dossier was precisely to make a case for war, rather than setting out the available intelligence, and that to make the best out of sparse and inconclusive intelligence the wording was developed with care."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/12/iraq-dossier-case-for-war

Um Ayad يقول...

Iraq inquiry: Campbell dossier evidence questioned

A senior ex-intelligence official has disputed Alastair Campbell's evidence about a dossier which outlined the threat posed by Saddam Hussein.

Tony Blair's ex-spokesman told the Iraq inquiry last year the September 2002 document was designed to set out UK concerns, not "make the case for war".
But Michael Laurie said those producing it "saw it exactly as that and that was the direction we were given"....

He added: "We knew at the time that the purpose of the dossier was precisely to make a case for war rather than setting out the available intelligence."
A similar document produced six months earlier had been rejected as it had "not made a strong enough case", he claimed.

"From then until September (2002) we were under pressure to find intelligence that could reinforce the case."

But despite what he said was probably the most thorough "scrutiny of every piece of ground" in Iraq, he said intelligence experts could find no evidence of planes, missiles or any equipment related to WMD....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-13371751

Um Ayad يقول...

With heavy hearts, Christians leave Baghdad

Bassam Anis was for a long time an optimist, but persistent attacks against his Christian community convinced him that his home country, Iraq, no longer offered him solace. So, on April 30, he fled.
While his solution may seem extreme, it is by no means uncommon....

Initially, he had hoped to leave on April 9, in a symbolic move to mark the date that Saddam's regime fell, but the sale of his house and car were delayed.

"It was a disastrous day for Iraq," he recalled. "Not because our life was better before, but because it was so much worse afterwards."

Bassam eventually boarded a flight to Jordan on April 30. He was clutching a one-way ticket.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20110512/wl_mideast_afp/iraqunrestreligionchristianrefugee

Um Ayad يقول...

Mystery of the helicopter that landed at scene of Dr Kelly's death after his body was found

A helicopter mysteriously landed at the scene of Dr David Kelly’s death shortly after the body was found.

The aircraft only remained on the ground for five minutes before leaving, suggesting it either deposited or collected somebody or something.
Details from its flight log, released under the Freedom of Information Act, show that the helicopter – hired by Thames Valley police – landed at Harrowdown Hill in Oxfordshire at 10.55am on July 18, 2003, 90 minutes after the body was discovered by volunteer search teams.

Significantly, the flight log has been heavily redacted, making it impossible to know who was on board or what its exact purpose was.
The flight was not mentioned in oral evidence at the Hutton Inquiry, set up by Tony Blair to investigate Dr Kelly’s death....

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1386967/Mystery-helicopter-landed-scene-Dr-Kellys-death-body-found.html

Um Ayad يقول...

Mystery of the helicopter that landed at scene of Dr Kelly's death after his body was found

A helicopter mysteriously landed at the scene of Dr David Kelly’s death shortly after the body was found.
The aircraft only remained on the ground for five minutes before leaving, suggesting it either deposited or collected somebody or something.
Details from its flight log, released under the Freedom of Information Act, show that the helicopter – hired by Thames Valley police – landed at Harrowdown Hill in Oxfordshire at 10.55am on July 18, 2003, 90 minutes after the body was discovered by volunteer search teams.
Significantly, the flight log has been heavily redacted, making it impossible to know who was on board or what its exact purpose was.
The flight was not mentioned in oral evidence at the Hutton Inquiry, set up by Tony Blair to investigate Dr Kelly’s death....

Dr David Kelly: Ten unanswered questions....

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1386967/Mystery-helicopter-landed-scene-Dr-Kellys-death-body-found.html

Um Ayad يقول...

Viva Palestina!!

Israeli forces open fire at Palestinian protesters

Israeli forces have fired on groups of protesters at borders with the Palestinian territories, Syria and Lebanon.
Reports say that at least 12 people have died and dozens more have been injured.

In one incident, thousands of Palestinian supporters from Syria entered the Golan Heights, Israel says.

Palestinians are marking the Nakba or Catastrophe, their term for the founding of the Israeli state in 1948.

Hundreds of thousands of Palestinians fled or were forced out of their homes in fighting after its creation.

Clashes have been taking place at four separate borders or crossing points - at Erez in Gaza, near Ramallah in the West Bank, on the Golan Heights and at the border with Lebanon.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-13373006

Um Ayad يقول...

Doubts over Dr Kelly that won't go away

Almost eight years have passed since the body of weapons expert David Kelly was found in secluded woodland close to his Oxfordshire home, yet many disturbing questions remain about the circumstances of his death.

Why, if Dr Kelly had died by cutting his own wrist, was there so little blood at the scene? Why did the ‘suicide weapon’ – a blunt garden knife – carry no fingerprints?

Why did Lord Hutton, who conducted the official inquiry into the tragedy, wish to lock away the post-mortem results for 70 years?

Today, the Mail reveals another mystery: the admission by police that a helicopter landed at the scene of Dr Kelly’s death shortly after his body was found, then left only five minutes later.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1386920/DAILY-MAIL-COMMENT-Doubts-Dr-Kelly-wont-away.html

Um Ayad يقول...

A brazen liar who's been found out at last

Unprincipled bully Alastair Campbell was forced to resign in disgrace after ‘sexing up’ the dossier that took us to war with Iraq.
The New Labour zealot was too toxic to remain even in Tony Blair’s morally feckless government.
Ever since, Campbell has appeared before numerous public inquiries where he has maintained his innocence, insisting there was a solid case for invading Iraq and toppling Saddam Hussein.
Now, however, the mendacious former red-top tabloid political editor has been exposed. Devastating secret evidence has been declassified which proves that Campbell and Blair lied about Saddam’s weapons of mass destruction. There was none.

A former chief spy, Major-General Michael Laurie, said: ‘We could find no evidence of planes, missiles or equipment that related to WMDs.’ When asked if the dossier gave a false picture of the intelligence, he replied: ‘Yes, yes, yes.’

This proves, too, that weapons expert Dr David Kelly was right. This honourable man, who blew the whistle on Blair and Campbell’s lies, ended up being driven to his death by these two men.

As a consequence of that dodgy dossier, 179 British soldiers have died in Iraq, hundreds maimed and up to 600,000 Iraqi civilians killed. What’s more, the conclusion earlier this month of the inquests into the deaths of those killed in London by the July 7 bombers was a reminder of how the invasion of Iraq led to the dangerous radicalisation of Islamic extremists in Britain.

Meanwhile, Blair has gone on to amass an estimated £20 million fortune, mainly down to his lucrative work in America — where he is loved, thanks to his poodle-like support of the White House over Iraq.
As for Campbell, he picked up £1 million for peddling more lies in his memoirs and continues to parade himself as a respected commentator on political affairs — constantly available to mouth his opinions on the BBC.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1386942/A-brazen-liar-whos-last.html

Bruno يقول...

GOOD series of posts on the "dodgy dossier", Um Ayad. Thanks!

   Lee C.  ―  U.S.A.       يقول...

 
Well, Bruno, I'd begun to think that you'd pulled a Jeffrey on us and faded completely away in disgrace.
But, the more rational part of my mind told me that it could not be so.  You basically have no shame.

RhusLancia يقول...

We'll see An Italian again after he gets his porn back from OBL, or gives up trying.

Lynnette In Minnesota يقول...

Hmmm...my response to PeteS seems to have disappeared. I guess not everyone likes dandelions here either. Pesky little things...

   Lee C.  ―  U.S.A.       يقول...

 
I believe Blogger dumped all comments made over a period of about a day, day and a half maybe.  Had nothing to do with the subject of dandelions, nor you personally singled out.

Um Ayad يقول...

Bruno,

"GOOD series of posts on the "dodgy dossier", Um Ayad. Thanks!"

You are welcome. Pleased you found the links interesting. Something we have known for a long time. What took them so long to speak out!!

Um Ayad يقول...

Lynnette in Minnesota,

Think this about Jesicca Lynch might interest you:-

US military's history of backtracking on initial reports

Stories told of Private Jessica Lynch, American footballer Pat Tillman and British aid worker Linda Norgrove were all incorrect

...The only problem with the official account is that it was untrue. In fact, Lynch's gun jammed and she did not fire a shot; Iraqi hospital staff treated her kindly and tried to return her to US forces; and, there was no need for a raid by army rangers and navy seals as the Iraqi military had fled the day before. Nor, contrary to initial reports, had she been shot or stabbed – her injuries had been caused after her truck was hit and crashed.

The rescue operation – which was filmed – was described by one doctor as "like a Hollywood film. They cried, 'Go, go, go', with guns and blanks and the sound of explosions. They made a show – an action movie like Sylvester Stallone or Jackie Chan, with jumping and shouting, breaking down doors."

Giving evidence at a congressional hearing four years later, Lynch said: "I am still confused as to why they chose to lie and tried to make me a legend....

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/04/us-military-backtracks-stories-history?INTCMP=SRCH

Bruno يقول...

The Iraqi people in the holy city of Karbala expressed overwhelming joy as they celebrated withdrawal of the United States' occupying forces from their Southern province, Iran's Fars News Agency (FNA) reported.

The Iraqis cheered up after Karbala was declared as the first Iraqi province free from occupation.

Amaleddin al-Hor, the governor of Karbala described the day as "a national and historic event", and told FNA, "It is a great honour for the people in Karbala province that their province is named as the first clean province in Iraq."
[...]
Meantime, media reports said that the US has pressed senior Iraqi officials to revise their decision on the US pullout and demand Washington to keep its troops in the country beyond their scheduled departure in the yearend.

http://www.bernama.com/bernama/v5/newsworld.php?id=586797

Bruno يقول...

"the first clean province".

Heh, heh.

The murkins sure are deeply loved in Iraq.

Bruno يقول...

[um ayad] "Lynch said: "I am still confused as to why they chose to lie and tried to make me a legend...."

She can't be too bright if she hasn't managed to work it out by now.

Bruno يقول...

A great victory for the Murkins:

"Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki says the Baghdad government plans to expand its military ties with Tehran, stressing that such relations will ensure regional stability. Maliki told Mehr News Agency on Monday that Iran and Iraq have deeply-rooted cultural, economic, historical and religious bonds. He added that common areas of interest and concern would likely effect the bilateral relations between the two countries."

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/180218.html

Bruno يقول...

"Reacting to latest US government proposal to relocate the terrorist organization, MKO or Mujahedin-e Khalq Organization, to another place within Iraq's territory, Iraqi lawmakers have called it another US intervention in country's internal affairs. The US government has proposed moving the camp of the MKO, known as Camp Ashraf, which is located in the Province of Diyala to another place inside the country.

The proposal comes only few days after the Iraqi government set a deadline of for MKO members to leave the country. "

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/180221.html

Bruno يقول...

With regards to ZEYAD'S original blog post:

SUNNIS TARGETED, BAATHISTS FEARED

Both Shi'ite and Sunni Muslim groups are behind the killings, but the recent spree targeting senior police and army officers in Baghdad has been carried out by Shi'ite groups concerned about a return of Saddam's outlawed Baath party after U.S. troops leave, senior security officials told Reuters."

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/05/16/us-iraq-security-assassinations-idUSTRE74F3H420110516

Many of Iraq's Shi'ite political party leaders believe Baathists, who dominated Iraq under Saddam, will try to return to power by leading a military coup, using senior Sunni officers in the ranks of the army and police, security officials said.

"The most dangerous threat facing Iraq in 2012 is the Baath Party because it seeks to regain power," said a senior Interior Ministry official named to his post by a Shi'ite Islamist party.

Baathists have the experience, money and leaders to stage a coup, he said.

The Interior Ministry said at least 11 senior officers working at the Interior and Defense Ministries have been killed in separate shootings in Baghdad in the last two months. Defense Ministry statistics showed eight senior officers were assassinated in the last week of April alone.

Brigadier-generals Moayed Khalil, Ihsan Ali, Riyadh Majeed Rasheed, Mohammed Hameed, Taha Ahmed and Brigadier Emad Hashim Ahmed were among the Defense Ministry officials killed in the last two months.

"Most of the officers who were killed in the Ministry of Defense were Sunnis," said a Shi'ite Defense Ministry officer who requested anonymity because of the sensitivity of the issue.

Bruno يقول...

Link:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/05/16/us-iraq-security-assassinations-idUSTRE74F3H420110516

Lynnette In Minnesota يقول...

Um Ayad,

I read the Guardian piece on Jessica Lynch.

I also went back and read the actual testimony by Lynch, which you will find here.

I place it here because you seem to be selectively choosing in your exerpt only part of the story. And I thought perhaps there are those out there who might actually like the complete version.

Yes, when her vehicle was hit by enemy fire and crashed into the one in front of it, she was injured. And, as she made a point of clearing up, she was not firing her weapon as initially reported. Whether or not it was a deliberate fabrication or the fog of war doesn't really matter. What I see is a soldier who acted honorably and that is the important thing for me.

Yes, there were those at the hospital who treated her kindly and even tried to find a way to get her back to our forces. Those people also acted honorably. But given the various factions fighting in the area, I can see why they may have had difficulty.

And last, but not least, all of her injuries were not sustained during the vehicle crash.

Marcus يقول...

Pete, have you been out cheering your Queen today?

Lynnette In Minnesota يقول...

Lee C,

I believe Blogger dumped all comments made over a period of about a day, day and a half maybe. Had nothing to do with the subject of dandelions, nor you personally singled out.

Well, that's a relief. I was starting to wonder if there were a dandelion fan lurking in the shadows. ;)

Lynnette In Minnesota يقول...

Bruno,

[um ayad] "Lynch said: "I am still confused as to why they chose to lie and tried to make me a legend...."

[Bruno] She can't be too bright if she hasn't managed to work it out by now.


Smart enough to do what's right, Bruno.

Um Ayad يقول...

MI6 made secret plan for anti-Saddam coup in December 2001

The three documents were written by a senior MI6 officer only referred to as "SIS4" in December 2001.
They were declassified and released yesterday by the Chilcot inquiry. Among the revelations are the following:

* Oil was a key motivating factor behind the efforts to remove Saddam. "The removal of Saddam remains a prize because it could give new security to oil supplies," the officer writes.

* MI6 did not believe that Saddam or Iraq were supporting al-Qa'ida. "There is no convincing intelligence (or common-sense) case that Iraq supports Sunni extremism," it says. But in January 2004, Mr Blair told the Commons: "We do know of links between al-Qa'ida and Iraq. We cannot be sure of the exact extent of those links."

* Britain believed America was planning military action to remove Saddam long before it was officially acknowledged. One document is dedicated to outlining the case for preventing America from taking direct action. They also refer to "US impatience".

But it was the plan to support a coup in Iraq which is most intriguing. The officer wrote: "At our meeting on 30 November [2001], we discussed how we could combine an objective of regime change in Baghdad with the need to protect important regional interests which would be at grave risk if a bombing campaign against Iraq were launched in the short term."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/mi6-made-secret-plan-for-antisaddam-coup-in-december-2001-2283432.html

Marcus يقول...

That was an interesting article Um Ayad, but you left out the most interesting part:

""The overall plan would need to be like an onion – each layer concealing the one below. The whole is a policy statement: 'we want regime change in Baghdad and we are ready to provide air support to coup makers'. The inmost part is knowledge of the coup makers with whom we are in touch and their operational plan. The layers in between would need to include operational plans.""

Substitute Tripoli for Baghdad and take into account that this was an MI6 plan and that Britain took the lead, alongside France, in the action against Khadaffi.

Bruno يقول...

Marcus, that's a good point. Only now are details seeping out about the true nature of some of the Libyan rebels ... some of whom were residing in the United States until not so long ago.

Bruno يقول...

Americans still keen to stay on in Iraq, Maliki ambivalent:

"On the international level there's a great deal we have to offer," says a senior US embassy official. "I think the prime minister understands and appreciates that. I think much of the political leadership does. I'm not sure the Iraqi public does." On paper, the future of the US military in Iraq is clear-cut. US and Iraqi officials say there are no plans and no negotiations to extend the troop presence here past the agreed Dec. 31 deadline – a major political priority in both Washington and Baghdad. But faced with that rapidly approaching date in a newly volatile Middle East, the US, at least, seems to be having second thoughts.
[...]
Adm. Mike Mullen, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, has expressed an openness to keeping a US military presence in Iraq past December."Should the Iraqi government desire to discuss the potential for some US troops to stay, I am certain my government will welcome that dialogue,"
[...]
Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki said on May 11 that he was open to an extended US stay if there was enough backing from Iraqis, but was vague about how much support he would require – and from whom.
[...]
Peter Mansoor, a former executive officer to Gen. David Petraeus and a professor of military history at Ohio State University. "We can couch it in whatever terms we want to but ... they need us to protect them from themselves," he said in a telephone interview. [LOOOOL]
[...]
Hard-line Shiite cleric Moqtada al-Sadr, whose Mahdi Army mounted a major offensive against US forces early in the war, announced last month that even if US military forces withdraw, he would consider an expanded embassy grounds for reactivating his fighters.
[...]
The US plans a large civilian presence in Iraq regardless of whether US forces stay. US Ambassador Jim Jeffrey recently told reporters that the US embassy here, already the biggest in the world, plans to double in size next year to about 16,000 people."

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Middle-East/2011/0517/US-troops-in-Iraq-US-Maliki-weigh-possible-extension/%28page%29/3

   Lee C.  ―  U.S.A.       يقول...

 
      "Americans still keen to stay on in Iraq…" etc.

Yeah, right.  That's why the Americans elected Obama as President last round, to ensure that they stayed on in Iraq.  Oh, wait, never mind.  We won't discuss that last part.

This is kinda like watchin’ Glenn Hannibaugh puttin’ together their faerie tale history wherein Dubya was actually the president who took out bin Laden.  Obama killed Osama, and they just can't hardly stand it.
Here, the Evil Merkins are right on track to pull our combat troops out of Iraq, just as we said we would, not even a pretense put up by Sadr nor any of the other insurgent groups that their guys have driven us out by force of arms.  And the chaos mongers just can't hardly stand it.

Lynnette In Minnesota يقول...

Obama killed Osama, and they just can't hardly stand it.

Nope. I think that was a member(or possibly two) of Seal Team 6 who did that.

As to who deserves credit for finally bringing some closure to 9/11, that would be everyone who worked hard to do so, not just the current President.

   Lee C.  ―  U.S.A.       يقول...

 
See there, Lynnette, that's why I listen to Glenn Hannibaugh occasionally.  They're the vanguard.  I listen to them and I get a heads up on what's comin’; they tell me in advance what you're gonna believe in a few weeks or few months, or however long it takes them to beat and repeat their spin into a widely held belief.
It won't be too long you'll be tellin’ us how torture played an essential role; thank God Bushie boy tortured some people, assuming you've not inhaled that faerie dust already.

Bruno يقول...

[lee] Obama killed Osama, and they just can't hardly stand it.
[lynnette] Nope. I think that was a member(or possibly two) of Seal Team 6 who did that."

Ouch. Pipped by Lynnette for the win. Gosh, that must hurt, eh, LEE?

Bruno يقول...

[lee] "That's why the Americans elected Obama as President last round, to ensure that they stayed on in Iraq."

So, Obama signed the withdrawal agreement*? Is that what you're saying?

:D

Nevertheless, I do agree that Obama's election was a sign that the American electorate was fed up with the invasion of Iraq.

But, we will have to see whether electoral wishes become reality. As we all know, American sentiment on the street rarely gets take into account when the big cheeses at the top are formulating foreign policy. If it was, I believe that Iraq wouldn't have been invaded in the first place.

* Not that I believe that ol' Bush actually meant a word of it; just a means to buy more time and to create a legal framework for continued US occupation of Iraq.

Petes يقول...

Marcus - even if I wanted to be out cheering "my queen" (top marks for attempted provocation, btw :-) I would not be able to get within an ass's roar of her due to the massive security operation. That's why I am working from home today. (Well, more accurately, from bed; and, ok, it doesn't take a historic royal visit to make me spurn the rush hour -- Queen Lizzie is just a handy excuse :-)

P.S. Lynnette: Blogger deleted my reply to your reply too :-)

   Lee C.  ―  U.S.A.       يقول...

 
      "Gosh, that must hurt, eh, LEE?"

Not so much.  Soon as the original ‘Obama killed Osama’ posted, and I looked at it, I saw that I should have phrased that differently.  ‘Obama got Osama’ would have probably been the better way to phrase it.  But, I decided to let it ride as was instead of writing a correction.  It was an opportunity to engage in a minor snark at best, a matter of no real importance, and, looking for someone to jump at a minor snark of no importance, I sorta figured it'd be you who took the opportunity.  (Given the subject matter I expected Petes would take a pass on it this time.)  I wasn't expecting it to be Lynnette steppin’ up for that, but I suspect she just beat you to it.

             ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
      "As we all know, American sentiment on the street
      rarely gets take into account when the big
      cheeses at the top are formulating foreign policy.


You are a complete idiot.  I think that pretty much covers it.  I don't think any further response is required.  ‘Complete and utter idiot’ perhaps?  Might be considered redundant, but might be considered emphatic.  Pick one.  Don't matter much to me.

Bruno يقول...

[bruno] "Gosh, that must hurt, eh, LEE?"
[lee] Not so much. [followed by many lines of bluster why not.] LOL! Sure, Lee.

[lee] "You are a complete idiot."

Since that comes from the last of the drooling morons, that insult is water off a duck's back.

Bruno يقول...

Gosh:

"The Obama administration is evaluating whether to keep troops in Iraq beyond the planned withdrawal date, a decision that would extend an unpopular war that the American public expected to end this year. "

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/11/iraq-withdrawal-2011-delay_n_860188.html

Bruno يقول...

The Obama administration is evaluating whether to keep troops in Iraq beyond the planned withdrawal date

Bruno يقول...

Obama administration ... keep troops in Iraq beyond .... withdrawal date

Petes يقول...

I see the resident troll is out trolling the residence, at 7:18 AM.

Lynnette In Minnesota يقول...

I wasn't expecting it to be Lynnette steppin’ up for that,...

Oh, you just touched a nerve, that's all. I just hate it when one guy gets credit for something of major importance, when in fact there were so many more people involved in the effort. But I will always give Obama the credit for making the correct call in okaying the operation.

Lynnette In Minnesota يقول...

PeteS,

I was reading a little piece the other day about Greece. It seems people are getting a little more concerned about a default.

Petes يقول...

Lynnette,

A Greek default has been inevitable from the get go. An Irish one too. They are certainties, not possibilities.

Everything other opinion is the product of spin. The masters of the EUniverse seem to be hoping against hope that if they kick the can down the road for long enough that something will magically fix itself, and their own busted banks will get off the hook.

Marcus يقول...

Pete, do you care to back that with numbers? I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying I've not yet seen the numbers that would make a Greek (OK, that seems likely) or an Irish (less likely) default inevitable.

I'm sure that in 92-93 that there were many who foresaw a Swedish default. Massive debt, in fact we're just this year forecast to pay off enough to owe below 1000 Billion SEK, and a dire situation over all.

The solution was, in our case, to raise taxes on the well off first of all. Then to trim down expenses by cutting quite dramatically into our public sector. The first was unpopular on the right, the second on the left but both were necessary (the US might take a hint from that in their current situation). It was only possible because of strong political leadership and a general public spooked by our downfall and with confidence in out political leaders at the time. (Social Democrats, not the politicians I normally vote for, but they did a pragmatic and overall good job at the time). Also the political opposition didn't act as spolilers.

I'd say that the biggest difference today is that we were kind of an isolated basket case in the midst of an economic upturn, and we had our own currency.

So our currency was devaluated, which no-one (except export companies) liked but everyone knew was necessary, and then we got to work and exported ourselves out of the immediate mess. Still paying for past excesses though, but now we're on the right track*.

Are you certain that Ireland could not come upp with a constructivve way to get back on its feet? And, if not, then why not?


*The biggest by far danger today is not our public debt which is low, in fact enviable, by most standards; but the private debt and the fact that our housing bubble has not yet popped.

Petes يقول...

Marcus -- more figures than you could shake stick at...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnuct2srAx0&feature=player_embedded

If you get bored, skip to 23 mins.

razlich يقول...

I offer to your attention a film about six priorities of the generalized instruments of management by countries and people of Earth.
Six Principles of Global Manipulation
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fF3TQ0lJnU
Anti-Qur'an Strategy of the Bible Project Wheeler-Dealers
http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1wXgXwj3MI

razlich يقول...

I offer to your attention a film about six priorities of the generalized instruments of management by countries and people of Earth.
Six Principles of Global Manipulation
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fF3TQ0lJnU
Anti-Qur'an Strategy of the Bible Project Wheeler-Dealers
http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1wXgXwj3MI

razlich يقول...

I offer to your attention a film about six priorities of the generalized instruments of management by countries and people of Earth.
Six Principles of Global Manipulation
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fF3TQ0lJnU
Anti-Qur'an Strategy of the Bible Project Wheeler-Dealers
http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1wXgXwj3MI

Um Ayad يقول...

Iraq: Blasts kill at least 16 in Baghdad area

At least 16 people have been killed in Iraq in a series of bomb blasts in the Baghdad area, officials say.
Dozens of others were injured in the attacks - mainly roadside or car bombs - which took place during the morning rush hour.

The deadliest attack took place in Taji, north of Baghdad, when a suicide bomber killed at 10 people.

Police said there were at least 14 bombs of one sort or another, with five of them apparently aimed at a police station in southern Baghdad while others had no apparent target, the BBC's Jim Muir says.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-13491112

Lynnette In Minnesota يقول...

Horrible weather here this weekend. We had over 4 inches of rain Saturday and it's raining again today. Tornado sirens going off all over the place and the garden is flooded.

PeteS,

I listened to the YouTube link you left on the Irish economic crisis. At the end in the summary they questioned the growth and interest rate forecasts, wondering if they are too optimistic. I wondered the same thing when I first saw the chart.

Marcus,

I'd say that the biggest difference today is that we were kind of an isolated basket case in the midst of an economic upturn, and we had our own currency.

So our currency was devaluated, which no-one (except export companies) liked but everyone knew was necessary, and then we got to work and exported ourselves out of the immediate mess.


I think you hit the nail on the head. It's a little easier to pull out of a crisis when you are the only country involved. But when you have so many areas of the world now struggling with various issues, it might not be such a slam dunk to fix. One reason why that 4 year scenario in the Irish video Pete linked to seems so, well, quick for a recovery.

Lynnette In Minnesota يقول...

I listened to Fareed Zakaria's show this morning. At least the portion that was aired before they broke off for President Obama's speech to AIPAC. Fareed interviewed various Egyptian activists about the current situation in Egypt. It was an interesting piece and he did a good job of balancing the ideals of the people he interviewed with the practical aspects of what is occurring there.

I think if I could comment on one thing regarding the Egyptians views of the United States and our foreign policy in the ME it would be to suggest that they try to understand the position that the United States is in. Their focus is naturally on their immediate situation and circumstances, as well it should be. The United States, however, is truly a global power and as such has many different issues to deal with. Some of which may take a delicate balancing act to handle. That Obama chose to contribute to the current NATO, and UN backed, actions in Libya, is huge. And while I understand that for many in the ME the situation between Israel and the Palestinians is of utmost concern, it is not so much to others in the world. They have their own concerns. Concerns that the United States is expected to listen to and respond to. I am getting the impression that Obama would genuinely like to assist those in the ME who truly want a more free and democractic type of governance. It is truly not wise or fair to judge our actions only through the prism of the Israeli/Palestinian conflict.

Marcus يقول...

Ahmadinejad has been put under a spell:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iran/8514929/Mahmoud-Ahmadinejad-under-a-spell-Ayatollah-Ali-Khamenei-says.html

Bruno يقول...

Who's going to be the last to die in Iraq?

"Two U.S. soldiers were killed on Sunday during operations in central Iraq, the U.S. military said. The U.S. forces announced the deaths in a military statement, without giving further details about how and where exactly the incidents took place. The names of the deceased are being withheld pending notification of next of kin."

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english2010/world/2011-05/23/c_13888439.htm

Petes يقول...

Great! Another security lockdown, this time while Obama poses for the cameras swinging a hurley, and visits the home town of his great-great-great-great-grandfather where a chosen few will get to see him. I've no objections to him and Queen Lizzie visiting, but do we really have to shut down half the country's infrastructure to make room for them?

غير معرف يقول...

^

But on the bright side, fresh simian meet will soon arrive in Shannon!

Petes يقول...

Well it didn't last too long after all. He rattled off a quick speech about the "eternal" friendship between Ireland and America and then buggered off early to fly to London before the new volcanic ash cloud descends on us tomorrow. So long Obama ... thanks for spending all of twelve hours here. Eternity must be kinda short where you come from.

Anyway, he got his photo op with a cute red-headed child, swung a hurley like a baseball player, and mispronounced a couple of words of Gaelic in his speech ... probably enough to woo some of the Oirish vote in the next election. So, mission accomplished.

Meanwhile, our Taoiseach got to make a sycophantic speech on a feel-good day with lots of adoring Obamaniacs around. He sounded somewhere between drunk and psychotic, but it seems to have done down well with the crowd.

Needless to say there's a few ungrateful wretches wondering about Obama's real genealogy ... of politicians, Protestants, and wig-makers :-)

http://irishfreepress.com/?p=24971

Bruno يقول...

Iraqi politicians on the US withdrawal:

Mushriq Naji, an MP from the Sadr group, the bloc led by the radical Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr:

The sons of Iraq are now able to protect their own people and country. They have no shortages or inadequacies in this regard. There is no reason for the Americans to keep their troops in Iraq any longer, and if they did, they would be creating greater problems for Iraq and the current troubles would continue.
[...]
Fuad Masum, head of the Kurdish coalition in Iraqi parliament:

All the groups in Iraq are, to some degree, are for the extension of the withdrawal deadline of US troops. This won’t last, however, since they worry about public opinion and the reaction of the voters. The public is for the withdrawal of American troops, which is why the country’s political groups cannot air their stance honestly.However, it is not the same for the Kurds; we know that the withdrawal of American forces will cause many problems.
[...]
Muhammad Sadoon Sahyood of Prime Minister Maliki’s State of Law coalition:

We support the withdrawal of US troops from Iraq as per the timetable agreed upon and signed by the US and Iraqi governments. According to this agreement, no US troops should remain in Iraq by the end of 2011.
[...]
Haidar Mullah, MP from al-Iraqia list:

The law and the constitution are run by political groups; therefore we believe that the imminent withdrawal of American troops will not have a positive impact on general security in Iraq. We support the withdrawal, but it should be done in an orderly manner

http://www.rudaw.net/english/news/iraq/3684.html

Bruno يقول...

American forces are facing an increasingly dangerous environment in southern Iraq, where Shiite militias trying to claim they are driving out the U.S. occupiers have stepped up attacks against bases and troops.

The uptick in violence serves as a warning about what American forces could face if U.S. and Iraqi officials come to an agreement about keeping more U.S. troops in the country...

http://www.newsday.com/news/us-troops-face-increasing-dangers-in-southern-iraq-1.2881680

Marcus يقول...

To maintain the No Fly Zone over Libya and "protect civilians" one must apparently bomb Tripoli.

It seems now that helicopter gunships are on their way to further "protect civilians".

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/25/world/africa/25libya.html?_r=1&ref=global-home

Petes يقول...

Lynnette, that weather in the midwest is looking quite apocalyptic.

Bruno يقول...

That's the most liberal interpretation of "protecting civilians" I've seen since Iraq, Marcus.

Marc يقول...

Yes Bruno. You might as well bomb, say, Moscow. The reasoning being:

Those tanks in that allegedly were parked in that compound in Tripoli could have been used to go to Benghazzi and kill civvies. So the compound, and Tripoli, had to be bombed. But the tanks were T72:s and they are made in Russia. So to assure that no more such tanks got sent there and ended up killing civvies, we urgently need to bomb Moscow as well. All in compliance with resolution 1973 of course.

Marcus يقول...

Oh, wait - Russia can fight back. Scratch that then.

Lynnette In Minnesota يقول...

Lynnette, that weather in the midwest is looking quite apocalyptic.

It does sound like this tornado season is going to rank pretty high for lives lost and damage done. :(

So far we've dodged the bullet in our area. We just got inundated with rain, we didn't lose our homes. And I don't know if it is my imagination or not, but it seems like the tornados are hitting more densely populated areas. We had one hit north Minneapolis over the weekend. And Joplin, Missouri got hit hard.

   Lee C.  ―  U.S.A.       يقول...

 
I suppose Khadhafi might be gratified to learn that Marcus is so greatly concerned that NATO might be interpreting its mandate a little too liberally.

Marcus يقول...

I suppose Khadaffi is too busy to be reading this blog and paying attention to my opinions.

I think few world leaders, in fact not a single world leader, are reading the comment section of this blog.

But I'm not surprised at all that Lee imagines some sort of grand audience here.

Me, I'm just here to pass some time, argue a bit, post some thoughts, post some nonsense. But Lee thinks he's actually impacting world events here. How sad.

Bruno يقول...

[marcus] "I think few world leaders, in fact not a single world leader, are reading the comment section of this blog. "

Wh ... what? And to think that I thought I was having a major effect on US foreign policy by posting here. You've gone and burst my bubble, Marcus! ;)

   Lee C.  ―  U.S.A.       يقول...

 
      "…Lee imagines some sort of grand audience here…"

I suspect your usual competence in English may have failed you here.  The verb tense I selected indicates a hypothetical.  (Or perhaps you understood that quite well enough, but you're intentionally posting ‘some nonsense’ anyway, in order to generate an argument and yet still avoid the point of my comment.) 

Marcus يقول...

"intentionally posting ‘some nonsense’ anyway, in order to generate an argument"

As if that wasn't precisely what you were up to yourself just one comment above mine. You got the kind of reply your comment deserved is all.

   Lee C.  ―  U.S.A.       يقول...

 
So, we're goin’ with the second option then?  That would be the one that has you avoiding the point of my comment.
Very well; so be it.  Next subject then?

Marcus يقول...

No no. You linger all you want on the subject on... what was it again?

Khadaffi being gratified to learn that I am greatly concerned that NATO might be interpreting its mandate a little too liberally?

Which part do you want to proceed with Lee? The hypothetical case of Khadaffi being gratified by my blog comments, or my "great concern" over NATO's interpretation of resolution 1973?

Do feel free to elaborate on either subject.

Marcus يقول...

Off for a long lunch myself and will not be back for several hours, at least.

Petes يقول...

Here's to seeing Mladic answer for Srebenica! Pity it took the Serbs to prostitute themselves for EU accession before they got him.

Petes يقول...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/may/26/ratko-mladic-arrest-srebrenica-refugees

Petes يقول...

Ok, Marcus, colour me impressed! Over fourteen hours since your last comment and not a peep in reply. How did you do that? I may have to start calling you the "Troll Whisperer".

Petes يقول...

Lynnette - an anniversary slipped by last month. The second anniversary of you suggesting that algae might be the next big thing in energy. I replied "Hmmm. Call me cynical. I'll believe that when I see it. I'm going to hazard a guess that nobody commercialises large-scale fuel from algae in the next five years."

Also, somebody posted the following articles around the time (I'm pretty sure Marcus was responsible for the second):
http://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/algae-biodiesel-its-33-a-gallon-5652/
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/17/business/energy-environment/17algae.html?ref=global-home

Well, just confirming that nobody's cracked it in 2 years in spite of "over 200 companies" trying to, and it's still over $30/barrel for biodiesel.

Obviously it's another 3 years to go before I can gloat. But since the US has been subsidising algae research for 35 years, I'm not expecting to be wrong.

Marcus يقول...

I'm surprised myself Pete. I thought Lee would at the very least picked a subject by now. After all, there are only two to choose from:

"The hypothetical case of Khadaffi being gratified by my blog comments, or my "great concern" over NATO's interpretation of resolution 1973?"

Petes يقول...

[Me]: "...it's still over $30/barrel for biodiesel."

Oops. Silly me. It's still over $30/gallon.

   Lee C.  ―  U.S.A.       يقول...

  
If I were trolling for you Petes I would have said something when you misdesignated a Catholic ‘Major Archbishop’ as an equivalent rank to the Maronite Patriarch.  (Petes @ 7:05 PM)  That's the sort of error that you'd be bound to try to defend, it going to your ‘Catholic competence’ and all that.

   Lee C.  ―  U.S.A.       يقول...

 
Or, maybe I should say ‘almost certain to try to defend’.  May be I should have written it thusly.  Having been so conspicuously shown the hook, it may turn out you're smart ‘nuff to let your error go this time.  I'm not countin’ on that, but there's always a chance you'll eventually learn to not compound your errors, and perhaps this will be the time.

Petes يقول...

Well, well, a whole new level of trollsomeness beckons... the troll is now attributing invented statements in the hope of a bite.

   Lee C.  ―  U.S.A.       يقول...

 
      "…attributing invented statements…"

Or, maybe not.

      "(…some of them are called Major Archbishops
      or Patriarchs, such as those of the Coptic, Syrian,
      Melkite, Chaldean, Armenian and Maronite
      Catholic churches...
"
      Petes @ 7:05 PM

Maybe you were just trying to beat your 14 hours to come up with something, and the ‘invented statements’ line was the best you could do.

Muammar Khadaffi يقول...

The action is slow here today. Or has those NATO bastards cut off my Internet connection? No, I still get access to bigboobedukraniannurses.com so my connection seems fine. I sure wish the action in this comment section would pick up again. It's been my main source of intel on foreign affairs for a long time.

Petes يقول...

^

LOL, Marcus. But there's plenty of action -- the resident troll is about to try to argue the meaning of "or".

   Lee C.  ―  U.S.A.       يقول...

 
Don't be ridiculous Petes; if I wanted to watch you try to perform that special Catholic magic of transmogrification on your own postings, I'd have called you on this a month ago when you wrote it. 
The point is rather that you flatter yourself.  You're not interesting enough to troll for, much as you'd like to believe otherwise.  (Hell, the ersatz ‘Italian’ won't even play with you anymore, and he's about as one dimensional as they come.)
That's why you've had to follow my postings for some months now with snipings and snides and repeated howling ‘bout how I'm supposedly trolling you.  Of late you've kinda been overworkin’ that last one.  You can't just following my posts and and keep howling ‘troll, troll’ without folks eventually noticing that you're the one trolling me, been you doin’ that for months.
I figure you're stuck ‘nuff in the habit that it's time for me to lay a light on your habit.  You'll not be able to stop; you're a creature of habit.  Folks who haven't noticed yet will notice now that you've been lit up.  Some of them anyway.
So, ciao for now.

Muammar Khadaffi يقول...

Ciao he says. So said my italian paymaster Berlusconi and then he fucked me over good and proper. Givin' them pesky NATO bastards landing strips to launch their air assaults from after all I did for ENI? What a fucker.

But the thing that worries me the most is the low low traffic in this comment section. It's what keeps myself gratified and thus it's the strength of the remnants of my regime.

Much like the Iraqi insurgents drew strength from this comment section through the years I really need anti-NATO propaganda in this forum to retain some semblance of my strenght.

For now the biggest threat to my liveliehood is the knife sharp analysis of Lee C, so I really have my hopes pinned to those few brave commentors that dare, in spite of the dire odds, to confront him.

   Lee C.  ―  U.S.A.       يقول...

 
Perhaps it's time to point out to our Swedish Khadaffi impersonator that my hypothetical was based on the notion that the real Khadhafi would be pleased by his great concern that NATO too liberally interpreting its mandate.

The notion that the real Khadhafi might come by such knowledge by reading this or any other blog was dreamed up entirely by the Swede himself.  An add-on entirely the making of the Swede; I had no part in dreaming that addition up.  Nevertheless, he seems very much committed to his own add-on now.

Well, have fun with that Marcus.  I have no problem with watchin’ the show.  But, I'm not likely to cooperate overmuch in your pretense that your imagination is my imagination. 
Bein’ the brave commentor that ya are, I'm thinkin’ you'll be needin’ to sharpen your knives a bit before proceeding too far further forward with this.
Just thought I'd let ya know.

Petes يقول...

Yet another trolling milestone -- the troll tosses out troll bait every which way, and claims it's proof HE'S being trolled!

   Lee C.  ―  U.S.A.       يقول...

 
Still tryin’ to salvage something outta that debacle are ya, Petes?  News flash for ya here:  Marcus didn't jump in all of a sudden ‘cause he figured there's anything left for you to salvage.  And he was rootin’ for ya.  When he give up on you, you had to know it was already too late.
One of these days you'll maybe learn to quit compounding your mistakes.  But, apparently, this ain't gonna be the day.

Lynnette In Minnesota يقول...

Here's to seeing Mladic answer for Srebenica!

I saw he was finally arrested the other day. Hiding in a shed or some such thing.

Score another one for the good guys! :) :) :)

I don't know, Muammar, maybe you might want to see what the Russians are offering...

...and if it can satisfy everyone, then it will be the Russians who pulled that rabbit out of a hat. ;)

Lynnette In Minnesota يقول...

PeteS,

Algae? I know that company I was talking about is still around, but I haven't checked to see if there have been any developments since the financial house of cards started falling. Let me go check...

Lynnette In Minnesota يقول...

Well, it does appear that they have attracted the attention of at least one member of the United States government.

It also seems that they are looking to build a second plant.

Whether or not their efforts lead to something bigger and more marketable remains to be seen I suppose.

I ran across another company the other day that is drilling for oil in North Dakota. One of those small long shot stocks that people tell you you shouldn't buy. I know there has been alot of interest in that region lately. I guess there is no telling where things will be in another 3 years.

Petes يقول...

Hi Lynnette,

Not sure if you were talking about the same company way back when, but your second link has nothing to do with algae. It's one of the many lipids-to-biodiesel outfits which, while all very good, is never going to be more than an obscure curiosity in the energy world due to the constraint on feedstock supply. And the first link is even weirder: "algae is in our future"?? Whoopee.

Not that I would put much store by the journalism in the first article, telling us that the process "retains its catalyst for each use rather than consuming it". Uh, that's the DEFINITION of a catalyst!

Anyway, having watched the alternative energy space in the US for a good number of years now, I've finally realised how it works. The formula has been repeated over and over and over again. Someone "invents" a novel process that is going to produce 50 cents per gallon fuel from universally available feedstocks. Unfortunately they need just a little bit more research, and a pilot plant to demonstrate scalability. So the DoE grants start rolling in, amounting to tens of millions of taxpayer dollars.

A couple of years passes, and the company has produced a few gallons of fuel from a completely different process, which is hailed as validation of their researches. Armed now with a patent or two, and "proof" of their success -- why else would the DoE have funded them -- they launch an IPO. The founders make millions. A couple more years later the pilot plant is beset by "scaling difficulties". Never fear, this wasn't the "real" process anyway -- that's still coming. All it needs is some more grants and capital injections.

The shareholders and the taxpayers lose millions when the operation inevitably goes belly up. But since news of failure is not "sexy", there is little reporting so the public gets the impression of a continuous flood of alternative energy innovations. If it wasn't so serious it would be laughable. As it is, it's obscene -- more than half a billion dollars of public money has been sunk into these jokers in the last few years. Very few (if any) have -- or in my opinion ever will -- produce a commmercially viable gallon of fuel.

Petes يقول...

Note to self: even the observation that the troll has resorted to desperate invention appears to encourage it. Better stop.

Other note to self: the word verification is "balog" ... curiously similar to the name of the super-troll in the Mines of Moria in TLoTR. Must be an omen :)

Marcus يقول...

That's an interesting (and probably accurate) sum up of alternative energy investments Pete.

I have a hard time seeing any real replacement for fossil fuels. They may be portrayed to look great then once you start to factor the vast amounts of energy from fossil sources we consume today and calculate how many wind turbines, acres of solar, algea plants or whatever, it would take to come close it never ends up looking realistic. Not saying we shouldn't invest in any of those though (unless they're outright destructive). We'll probably need every source we can find and then some.

I have an especially critical view of all things liquid (sorry John). I get the lure of it. Some fuel that works just like gasoline so we can pour it into existing or slightly modified engines and just go about our old ways. How nice not to have to make any adjustmentss to infrastructure or our ways of life. Just find a process that somehow creates synthetic oil. The only one with a proven track record, as far as I know, was JC who turned water into wine. What do you say Pete, since you're more into all that jazz than I am, could it be he comes back just when we're on the brink of Peak Oil destruction?

Also new liquid fuels based on fossil sources, like LNG or Coal to oil seems the wrong way to go about it. It works, sure, but it wastes so much of the energy that was initially available.

I think the focus should first be to find ways to produce energy period, and then worry about what form it comes in and how to use it, and I always come back to electricity playing an even more important role. But that means dramatic adjustments to the way we live and work and it includes the death of suburbia, as we have mentioned before.

Fission reactors maybe, or some sort of new nuclear technology, might be that magic bullet we need. But most serious investment into nuclear was for current generation rectors, and after the TEPCO debacle even much of those investments looks shaky. But nuclear has the potential to make a real impact at least. Algea? Not so much, I should think.

   Lee C.  ―  U.S.A.       يقول...

 
      "…desperate invention… "
      Petes @ 5:43 PM

Been there; done that.  (‘…attributing invented statements…’ Petes @ 8:51 PM; supra)

Petes يقول...

That's also a good summary Marcus. Growing our fuel -- in whatever form -- has to deal with Mother Nature's low productivity. Or perhaps it would be more accurate to say "diffuse productivity". There's plenty of energy but it hasn't been compressed and condensed and concentrated for free, the way Nature did with our once-off endowment of fossil fuels.

I still see biofuels as the future, basically because we'll eventually have no other choice. If it was my choice right now, I'd say plant a couple of trillion trees. Pelletise them for home heating, gasify them for electricity generation from syngas, and reform the gas to methanol for a near drop-in replacement for transport fuel. However, it goes without saying that we would be using only a fraction of today's energy, and transport fuel would be the equivalent of at least tens of dollars per gallon. In the interim shale-gas-to-methanol has a future.

On the other hand, I'm getting increasingly optimistic about nuclear fusion being cracked in an economical way (i.e. not the ITER way). Then everything changes. Heck, we'll be making fuel and chemical feedstocks from carbonaceous rocks and seawater! :)

Bruno يقول...

[lynnette] "Here's to seeing Mladic answer for Srebenica! I saw he was finally arrested the other day. Hiding in a shed or some such thing. Score another one for the good guys! :) :) :)"

Goody! I can't wait till they arrest Bush, Blair and the gang too. That would be fun.

Bruno يقول...

Troops on the ground in Libya:

"Are these men SAS helping Libyan rebels? News crew films Western troops liaising with gunmen"

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1392459/Are-SAS-Libya-News-crew-films-Western-troops-liaising-rebel-forces.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

Bruno يقول...

I notice the troll is getting desperate. Seems like it will do anything for some attention! ;)

Marcus يقول...

I still haven't even figured out what he wanted to engage me on:

"The hypothetical case of Khadaffi being gratified by my blog comments, or my "great concern" over NATO's interpretation of resolution 1973?"

Asked him twice but to no avail, perhaps it was something else entirely.

   Lee C.  ―  U.S.A.       يقول...

 
The notion that Khadhafi would be following your blog comments is yours alone.  I've got no part in imagining up that scenario.  Nor do I want one.
Far as I'm concerned my 6:31 PM comment was clear ‘nuff and needs no further elaboration.  If you don't want to deal with it, I'm ready to move on.

Bruno يقول...

What?

Ghaddafi is following our blog comments?

What's this that LEE is claiming?

Bruno يقول...

It took two diesel power plants nearly nine years to be completed, signaling how time-consuming and expensive Iraq’s post-war reconstruction has become.

The two plants, with a 230-megawatt capacity, were supposed to be completed in 2002, but their power-generating capacity will only be added to the national grid in two-months’ time, according to a senior Electricity Ministry official.

Alaa Rassoul, the ministry’s general-inspector, blamed U.S. occupation troops for the delay.

He said U.S. troops camped at the site where the two plants were to be constructed, forbidding the contracting companies from completing their work on time.

“The site was only returned to the ministry two years ago,” Rassoul said."

http://www.azzaman.com/english/index.asp?fname=news\2011-05-30\kurd.htm

Petes يقول...

[bruno]: "I notice the troll is getting desperate. Seems like it will do anything for some attention! ;)"

[Marcus]: "I still haven't even figured out what he wanted to engage me on... Asked him twice but to no avail, perhaps it was something else entirely."

I really don't think you should be encouraging it. I mean, it's started dredging up month old comments, inventing delusional inferences, and hurling troll shit on foot of it. If that's not the last gasp of a washed-up troll ...

Lynnette In Minnesota يقول...

Hi Pete,

Yes, that is the same company I was talking about before. They were trying out various feedstocks, including algae. What seems to be unique in their process is the lack of water usage. As you know, that is a commodity that is not always plentiful.

The other plant planned is apparently a spinoff of what they are doing, using the same process. The very fact that they are planning something like that seemed to imply they are in this for the long haul.

But, as you say, there is no guarantee of success. I still wish them well, though.

Lynnette In Minnesota يقول...

Marcus,

I have a hard time seeing any real replacement for fossil fuels.

I hate to say this, Marcus, but there was a time when someone else said the same thing about horses. ;)

Before anything new can be accomplished there has to have been a dream.

Marcus يقول...

Lee's initial statement: "I suppose Khadhafi might be gratified to learn that Marcus is so greatly concerned..."

Me: "The hypothetical case of Khadaffi being gratified by my blog comments..." (Note the word: "hypothetical")

Lee: "The notion that Khadhafi would be following your blog comments is yours alone."

Nah, it's your notion of my notion Lee.

Why don't you just come out and say what it was you wanted to debate, if anything? In the next couple of days we have a few holidays here and depending on the weather I may, or may not, be inclined to debate with you. If you can just manage to come up with what your argument is.

Marcus يقول...

Lynnette: "there was a time when someone else said the same thing about horses. ;) Before anything new can be accomplished there has to have been a dream."

Well, it wasn't as if the whole of humanity and our standard of living was dependent on horses and horses were running out, now was it?

That analogy is so wrong on so many levels I won't even go into it. I'm sure that if you just step back and think about it a bit you'll see how it applies precicely not at all to the current energy debate. Right?

Lynnette In Minnesota يقول...

Pete again,

Growing our fuel -- in whatever form -- has to deal with Mother Nature's low productivity.

Which is why the ability to use feedstocks made of the lowliest plant matter, grown in the harshest conditions, would be a plus. No need to waste a nice solid, carbon dioxide sucking, tree. :)

Lynnette In Minnesota يقول...

Marcus,

Well, it wasn't as if the whole of humanity and our standard of living was dependent on horses and horses were running out, now was it?

Actually our standard of living was rather dependent on horses. It was the enhancement of that standard of living that was dependent on improving on the horse.

I'm sure that if you just step back and think about it a bit you'll see how it applies precicely not at all to the current energy debate. Right?

It speaks to the creativity needed to develop alternative methods of energy. And the freedom needed to allow that creativity to function. Sure there will be dead ends, but you gotta try.

Lynnette In Minnesota يقول...

Bruno,

[lynnette] "Here's to seeing Mladic answer for Srebenica! I saw he was finally arrested the other day. Hiding in a shed or some such thing. Score another one for the good guys! :) :) :)"

[Bruno] Goody! I can't wait till they arrest Bush, Blair and the gang too. That would be fun.


In the world of those who believe that no one should stand up to the likes of Saddam Hussein, yes, I can see where that would be fun.

Marcus يقول...

Lynnette, with regards to algea.

Algea is basically a solar biofuel (like all biofuels). The idea is that it captures the energy of sunlight and we can then harvest it. The nice thing with algea is that it is one of the more efficient catchers of solar energgy that we know of, maybe THE most efficient. So, there's potential.

But the energy in oil is also nothing else than the captured Solar energy that plant life sucked up ages ago and that was then compressed into a very energy dense liquid, left for us to suck up out of the ground and use. Same as your algea really, in principle.

Now, the oil we use holds the energy of millenias of plantlife sucking up solar energy and then some of it turning into oil. It took entire biosystems to be buried underground for ages to leavve us this treasure of compressed energy. The time factor is the key. We are consuming every year what took a very, very long time for the biosystems millenias ago to leave in store for us.

Take biomass from wood. It takes roughly 2 tons of woodchips to hold the same amount of energy as one ton of oil. How long does it take to grow 2 tons of woodchips? Look in your garden. How big does a tree have to get to weigh 2 tons and how long does it take for that to happen? Pretty long, right?

Have you considered the energy density of algea, how long it takes to produce it, what acrerage it would take in installations, what net energy efficiency there would be (hint - algea is not a fuel in itself like oil, it would need an energy intensive process to turn it into a viable fuel), and in what form the fuel would then arrive?

When you read about an energy solution like algea, or any other, there are a few basic questions you need to ask:

#1 How much energy does can this produce per installation/acre/cost.

#2 What is the net energy? So called "easy oil" is very pure energy since it takes so little to pump/transport/refine it we can actually use the most part for real end consumption. (Many new fuels, such as much of the ethanol John likes so much, actually takes more energy to derive than what we can ultimately use. Which is, like John, the definition of a loser)

#3 When you've calculated the amount and the net efficiency and come upp with a large number of potential new energy: How much IS that really, if compared to our current usage in total. Is it an alternative? Is it a possible partial substitute? Or is it negligable?

#4 What are the possibilities for really large scale production, and if there are such possibilities then return to #3.

   Lee C.  ―  U.S.A.       يقول...

   
      "Lee's initial statement: ‘I suppose Khadhafi
      might be gratified to learn that Marcus is so greatly
      concerned...’
      "Me: ‘The hypothetical case of Khadaffi being
      gratified by my blog comments..." (Note the word:
      "hypothetical")…
"

You seem to have made a revision in your recollection of the sequence of events.  You've created a faerie tale history as it were.  Let me correct your recollection here:

      "I suppose Khadhafi might be gratified to learn
      that
Marcus is so greatly concerned that NATO
      might be interpreting its mandate a little too
      liberally.
"
      Lee C. @ 6:31 PM
      (emphasis added, here and below)

      "I suppose Khadaffi is too busy to be reading this
      blog and paying attention to my opinions.
      I think few world leaders, in fact not a single world
      leader, are reading the comment section of this
      blog.
      "But I'm not surprised at all that Lee imagines
      some sort of grand audience here.
"
      Marcus @ 12:33 AM
      (note the absence of any indication of an
      understanding that I had posed a hypothetical)

      "I suspect your usual competence in English may
      have failed you here. The verb tense I selected
      indicates a hypothetical.
(Or perhaps you
      understood that quite well enough, but you're
      intentionally posting ‘some nonsense’ anyway, in
      order to generate an argument and yet still avoid
      the point of my comment.)
      Lee C. @ 2:46 AM

      "***  You got the kind of reply your comment
      deserved is all.
"
      Marcus @ 3:07 AM

      "So, we're goin’ with the second option then?
      That would be the one that has you avoiding the
      point of my comment. Very well; so be it. Next
      subject then?
"
      Lee C. @ 3:40 AM

      "*** Which part do you want to proceed with
      Lee? The hypothetical case of Khadaffi being
      gratified by my blog comments, or my ‘great
      concern’ over NATO's interpretation of resolution
      1973?
      "Do feel free to elaborate on either subject.
"
      Marcus @ 4:01 AM
      (Note that Marcus has finally, finally figured out
      that I didn't really think that Khadhafi was following
      his blog comments.)

The time difference between my telling Marcus he'd been looking at a hypothetical, and Marcus figuring it out was one hour and fifteen minutes.  (Or, that's the difference in the posting times anyway.)

   Lee C.  ―  U.S.A.       يقول...

 
      "(Note that Marcus has finally, finally figured out
      that I didn't really think that Khadhafi was following
      his blog comments.)
"

Actually, I think he'd figured it out some time earlier, but was being intentionally obtuse for as long as he could manage it..

Petes يقول...

Lynnette,

Think of how much pasture 600 horses would graze. That's what it would take to run a single truck on biofuel. Now think of 15 million cars in Los Angeles -- one large city in one country. And now consider their combined horsepower. Makes a biofuel future sound like a bit of a pipe dream, does it not?

"...the ability to use feedstocks made of the lowliest plant matter, grown in the harshest conditions, would be a plus. No need to waste a nice solid, carbon dioxide sucking, tree. :)"

That's another pipe dream. A nice (but fallacious) story doing the rounds these last years is that energy crops can be grown on marginal land with minimal water and fertiliser. We've heard it about miscanthus, about jatropha, and camelina, and hemp and so on. Yes, some of those are drought tolerant, but yield will be directly related to how well the plant is fed and watered. Nature can't work magic.

Then, as Marcus says, there is the efficiency of the process by which plants can be harvested and processed for energy. Some of them return very little more energy than was put into the process. (Some may even return less!).

There's no current prospect that algae are any better. The more productive algae are fragile little things, so they have to be grown in so-called "bio-reactors", not open ponds. If you've ever kept a fish tank you know that it gets green and scummy and has to be cleaned out regularly or pretty soon it doesn't let any more light through. Algal bio-reactors are just fish tanks without the fish. What's the cleaning cost going to be? (Not to mention the many other costs of squeezing a few micrograms of fuel out of a soggy alga).

Anyway, lest I harp on too much... lets see the results. As far as I can see, there are no more now than there were two years ago, or twenty years ago.

Marcus يقول...

I'll try again:

Why don't you [Lee] just come out and say what it was you wanted to debate, if anything? In the next couple of days we have a few holidays here and depending on the weather I may, or may not, be inclined to debate with you. If you can just manage to come up with what your argument is.

   Lee C.  ―  U.S.A.       يقول...

 
It was an observation Marcus.  It was not an argument.  The observation is the point.  It's all there, wrapped up neat and tight in a single sentence; all right in front of you.  You appear to object to it, but I don't really care.
And I'll let you worry ‘bout your holiday weather all by yourself.  That's not a subject which interests me.

Bruno يقول...

I just scrolled through that long screed that the troll left. Somebody wake me if I missed anything important. ;)

I leave you all with a quote from Robert Heinlein “Never try to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and it annoys the pig.”

   Lee C.  ―  U.S.A.       يقول...

 
(Edit)

It was an observation Marcus. It was not an argument. The observation is the point. It's all there, wrapped up neat and tight in a single sentence; all right in front of you.  No further argument is required. You appear to object to it, but I don't really care.
And I'll let you worry ‘bout your Swedish holiday weather all by yourself. That's not a subject of interest to me.

(Close edit.  Yeah, I like that version better.)

Bruno يقول...

@ Marcus

"Being right too soon is socially unacceptable." - Robert A. Heinlein

Bruno يقول...

It appears that the might of Robert A. Heinlein has driven off the troll. I hereby award myself a gold star.

   Lee C.  ―  U.S.A.       يقول...

 
    Lurk; lurk.

Marcus يقول...

I take that to mean we have nothing do debate, argue or discuss. That works out just fine because the weather looks really promising for the weekend. Nice. So, we're in agreement that you didn't have an argument and that your point was merely an observation and that it was a dumb fucking observation. Works with me. Ciao.

Bruno يقول...

This calls for a Robert A. Heinlein quote!

"Never underestimate the power of human stupidity." - Robert A. Heinlein

Bruno يقول...

Meanwhile, in Iraq:

"Sadrist spokesman announced today that "the Sadrist Trend is firm on its stand to not engage in any dialogue with any party involved in occupying Iraq."

This is the first comment from the Sadrists on the U.S. ambassador's statement about his readiness to have a dialogue with the Sadrist Trend, despite his criticism of the recent parade organized by the Mehdi Army. "

http://www.zawya.com/story.cfm/sidZAWYA20110601041225

Bruno يقول...

Business in Iraq:

"A Virginia Beach woman was sentenced to 14 months in prison after she was convicted of participating in a scheme to bribe an Air Force Official for government contracts. Michelle Adams,44, was sentenced by U.S. District Judge Jerome B. Friedman. She had pled guilty on December 7 of last year.

According to a news release , Adams along with another man, Frankie Hand started a business and personal relationship after meeting in May of 2007 at Camp Taji, Iraq.

Hand then agreed to help Adams along with a business partner, Peter Dunn get contracts from the U.S. government from Iraq. Hand ,Adams and Dunn also agreed to pay Mark Carnes, a U.S. Air Force Master Sergeant at Camp Taji to help with getting contracts the release says. Hand, Carnes, and Dunn were also convicted and serving sentences of 36,20 and 14 months."

http://www.dailypress.com/news/southside/dp-virginia-beach-woman-sentenced-for-iraq-bribery-scheme-20110531,0,3580731.story

   Lee C.  ―  U.S.A.       يقول...

 
      "So, we're in agreement that… and etc."

Well, no, nobody's agreed to your additional points there.  You were wrong ‘bout who imagined up the Khadhafi watching blogs scenario; you were wrong ‘bout you faeri tale history of your discovery of the hypothetical; you were wrong ‘bout the idea that there simply must be a further argument.  And you continue to be wrong.
Damn good thing you're takin’ a holiday, ‘cause you've pretty much had a brain freeze goin’ right on down through and including you last post at 5:49 AM.
Try to get some rest; maybe your head will work when you get back from holiday.  You obviously need some mental rest, maybe let your head clear and settle will help.
On the bright side, your foolishness has given Petes a continuing thread to lurk about, where he can howl ‘troll, troll’ a few more times.  (Told ya'll he'd not be able to quit that; creature of habit he is.)  And it's given Bruno an opporunity to do whatever the hell he thinks he's been doin’.  So, all your fumbling about has been of some benefit to somebody.  If you can convince enough people that NATO should back off you might even be of some miniscule benefit to Khadhafi eventually, make yourself a foot soldier in the propaganda war as it were, although the chances there are minimal.   Don't think you've done yourself much good though.  And I'm good with that; so, ciao indeed.

Bruno يقول...

Congratulations Marcus!

You managed to get the troll to blow up and post yet another meaningless screed. :)

8.5 lines of trollish drivel wins you today's "Troll-Baiter Champion Floating Trophy"!

It's yours until somebody else provokes the troll into an even longer and/or more meaningless rant. ;)

   Lee C.  ―  U.S.A.       يقول...

 
      " take that to mean we have nothing do debate,
      argue or discuss.
"

Although, in closing, I do have to wonder why you couldn't have come to this conclusion a few days ago after reading this:

      "So, we're goin’ with the second option then?
      That would be the one that has you avoiding the
      point of my comment. Very well; so be it. Next
      subject then?
"
Lee C. @ 3:40 AM

There it is, I figure it's done, and I told ya I so figured, and there it is starin’ ya straight in the face and it still takes ya two days to figure it out, and finally accept it.

Petes يقول...

[bruno]: "I just scrolled through that long screed that the troll left. Somebody wake me if I missed anything important. ;)"

Ditto.

[bruno]: "8.5 lines of trollish drivel wins you today's "Troll-Baiter Champion Floating Trophy"! It's yours until somebody else provokes the troll into an even longer and/or more meaningless rant. ;)"

I reckon I could take that trophy with one hand tied behind my back. In fact I guarantee I could get the troll to wax lyrical about "the meaning of 'or'". But I'd only end up giving the wretch more free lessons, about the multiple functions of the word 'or' as an inclusive disjunction and the equivalent of id est. But then it's never shown much aptitude for English, let alone Latin. And I'd eventually have to just resort to the empirical evidence of my post of 24-Nov-2008 19:41 where I said patriarchs were cardinal bishops. But that's the same one that says every bishop is the head of the church. But we know where that would lead. And even a troll shouldn't be beaten mercilessly forever.

So I'll just content myself with predicting that the troll will now whine about how I just stop myself from needling it. I guess it's right in a way. Whine on troll! :)

Petes يقول...

Correction: ...how I just CAN'T stop myself from needling it...

LOL.

Petes يقول...

http://www.thelocal.se/34122/20110601/

Sweden's housing market shows signs of a bubble and is on the verge of a sustained price decline, the International Monetary Fund (IMF) has warned in a new report.

   Lee C.  ―  U.S.A.       يقول...

 
      "And I'd eventually have to just resort to…
      where where I said patriarchs were cardinal
      bishops.
"

Speakin’ of which, I'm pretty sure that's wrong too.  Something ‘bout Cardinal Bishops getting allocated ‘suburbican sees’, and Patriarchs already having their own ‘patriarchies, and not getting assigned ‘suburbican sees’.  Which is not to say that Patriarchs these days aren't routinely appointed as Cardinals, but they're not technically accorded the title of ‘Cardinal Bishop’ on account of, or on the occasion of, becoming Patriarchs.  Rather, nowadays the Pope always appoints the new Patriarchs as Cardinals right quick, to keep rigid folks like Petes from asking themselves uncomfortable questions ‘bout the sanctity of the holy hierarchy.
Point being that Patriarchs are not ‘Cardinal Bishops’, not automatically anyway, but the Pope always sees to it that they subsequently become ‘Cardinal Bishops’ right quick.

(Your claim to a special ‘Catholic competence’ keeps takin’ hits here Petes; you probably oughta just go back to the ‘troll, troll’ thing and not keep tryin’ to adorn it.)

   Lee C.  ―  U.S.A.       يقول...

 
      "Something ‘bout Cardinal Bishops getting
      allocated
‘suburbican sees’, and Patriarchs
      already having their own ‘patriarchies, and not
      getting assigned
‘suburbican sees’."

Least, I think that's got something to do with it.  Point is that Patriarchs aren't ‘Cardinal Bishops’ until the Pope gets around to finessing that distinction later by appointing them to that rank.  Thereby making a potential heirarchy problem go away.

Petes يقول...

LOL.

Bruno يقول...

*cough*cough*

"It's an indulgence to sit in a room and discuss your beliefs as if they were a juicy piece of gossip."

- Robert A. Heinlein

‏«الأقدم ‏‹أقدم   ‏1 – 200 من 381   ‏›أحدث ‏أحدث»