Friday, March 11, 2011

"No to unemployment, Yes to jobs"

Hundreds of Iraqi protesters demanded jobs and better basic services on Friday, in the latest challenge to the government as a wave of popular uprisings sweeps across the Arab world.

Some 500 protesters turned up in Baghdad's Tahrir Square and about as many in the city of Fallujah west of the capital.

Iraq's government has been shaken by a string of rallies across the country since the beginning of February, inspired by uprisings that forced out the presidents of Tunisia and Egypt.

"'No' to unemployment, 'Yes' to jobs," read one of the banners at the Baghdad protest.

More

68 comments:

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   Lee C.  ―  U.S.A.       said...

 
What with the Japanese earthquake and the Libyan rebellion, two Iraqi protests numbering 500 each didn't even make the news over here.

Jeffrey said...

500 protesters is small by any standard, I believe. Uprising? No. Justified? Most likely. A sign of democracy in action? Yeah, a little bit.

But I do have to laugh at that "No to Unemployment" chant. Oh yeah, Down with Unemployment! Down with Death! It's cruel and unusual punishment that I invest so much time and effort into living, only to have Death come knocking at my door and Government not willing to intervene on my behalf.

Jeez, if Government can't protect me from Death Itself, what good is it? Come on, Government should give me a job and then smite Death when it arrives. You can't expect me to do anything for myself, right?

*

RhusLancia said...

Arab League rejects foreign intervention in Libya
Arab League calls for Libya no-fly zone

Lynnette In Minnesota said...

Oh, Iraq. For a minute there I thought you might be commenting on your new home, Zeyad. :)

Lynnette In Minnesota said...

From Rhus' article:

Arab League chief Amr Mussa called for a no-fly zone over Libya and said he wants the group to play a role in imposing it, as the bloc prepared to hold key talks on the crisis Saturday.

"I do not know how nor who will impose this zone, that remains to be seen. The Arab League can also play a role, that is what I will recommend," Mussa said in an interview with German weekly Der Spiegel.


Play a role? That sounds good. Maybe they can supply the fuel for the planes.

   Lee C.  ―  U.S.A.       said...

   
The Saudi got planes of their own.  They can provide them too.  All them damn princes (and there's a lot of Saudi princes) they all wanna be fighter pilots.  (Don't think I'd let them try to land on one of our carriers though; don't trust their skills for that.  They'll wind up killing themselves and half a deck crew and taking out the traffic control tower on the carrier.  But surely the Egyptians can provide air strips.)  We can kick in the AWACs to jam Libyan air defenses and provide eyes on the field for the Saudi princes.

Anonymous said...

Jeffrey:

Why did Yee leave you?

Jeffrey said...

Nonny,

It's amazing how strongly you anonymous commenters hold on to your cowardice. It's almost like a religion with you, I guess. The Society of Cowards.

Here's a blast from the past directed at you boys:

Make that "One Thousand and TWO Nights".

I still get a kick out of that lisping snake.

*

Jeffrey said...

Rhus, Lynnette, Lee,

Well, I haven't been following events in the Middle East very much, but it sure would be interesting to see that collection of fools known as the Arab League try to work together to create a no-fly zone. A tragicomedy of errors would ensue, I'm sure.

My guess, though, is that, like with the Euro-weenies, it's going to be a lot of histrionic fretting and posturing and talking. But, in the end, zilch.

*

Jeffrey said...

Lynnette,

Play a role? That sounds good. Maybe they can supply the fuel for the planes.

Oh, behave. (austino voce)

*

Jeffrey said...

Lee C.,

Good point about the Saudi princes. Let's see if they're really "top guns" or just water pistols.

*

Petes said...

Aah, such noble condescension -- I just can't understand why Arabs wouldn't LURVE you guys.

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   Lee C.  ―  U.S.A.       said...

 
      "I just can't understand why Arabs wouldn't
      LURVE you guys.
"

You think that us talkin’ up the Saudi royal family would cause Arabs to think better of us?

   Lee C.  ―  U.S.A.       said...

 
      "CAIRO [Saturday] — ‘The Arab League asks
      the United Nations to shoulder its responsibility
      ... to impose a no-fly zone over the movement of
      Libyan military planes and to create safe zones
      in the places vulnerable to airstrikes.’
"
      MSNBC

I'd guess we're not going to see an Saudi pilots over Libya after all.  I won't be holding my breath for them to cough up fuel either.

      "Sitting on ammunition boxes, four young
      men from Benghazi debated the war… They
      promised victory but echoed the anger heard
      often these days at the United States and the
      West for failing to impose a no-flight zone…
"
      from the New York Times

Lynnette In Minnesota said...

Jeffrey,

Oh, behave. (austino voce)

lol! That's no fun.

Truth Seeker said...

International jurist Richard Falk: imposing a no-fly zone over Libya would be an act of war against a sovereign state.

http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/opinion/2011/03/201138143448786661.html

Lynnette In Minnesota said...

Sitting on ammunition boxes, four young men from Benghazi debated the war… They promised victory but echoed the anger heard often these days at the United States and the West for failing to impose a no-flight zone…"

What?!

What?!

What happened to all that anger at our intervention in Iraq? Are you saying that you are inviting us to interfere?

Well, you have my support, but I'm afraid that no one asks me.

International jurist Richard Falk: imposing a no-fly zone over Libya would be an act of war against a sovereign state.

For some, stopping a murderer in the act of murdering would be considered justifiable. Would not attempting to prevent a sovereign state from committing murder be just as justifiable?

Petes said...

[Lee C]: "You think that us talkin’ up the Saudi royal family would cause Arabs to think better of us?"

Lee imagines I'm talking about Americans in general, as opposed to him and Jeffrey being arseholes. No, Lee, I doubt if the Saudi royal family is reading your tripe on this blog.

   Lee C.  ―  U.S.A.       said...

 
      "What happened to all that anger at our
      intervention in Iraq? Are you saying that you are
     
inviting us to interfere?

I presume the question was intended to ask if they might be inviting us to interfere?  I don't know that the journalist was making that report was attuned to the nuances there, but assuming he was, and that they were asking for a unilateral American intervention under an American flag…  Well, found some more foot soldiers.  Still don't know that much of the rebel alliance would agree with these four on that.  And, the rebels' reversals in recent days may have loosened up their attitudes a little bit.
What is certain is that Rhus was correct. 

      "I think if we look hard and long enough, or
      simply wait, we'd be able to find that Libyan
      saying this, or this Libyan saying that.
"
      RhusLancia @ 8:54 AM, prior thread, first page

My point was actually quite different.
Looking at that comment from the Arab League, what stands out to me is their notion that the U.N. has a ‘responsibility’ to set up a no-fly zone in Libya.  The young rebels mentioned in the NYT piece seem to be of a similar mindset.  (Notwithstanding the abrubt reversal of position by Petes, the Libyans are, in general, more Arab than African.)  They want what they want when they want it, and they seem to think that their wants consitute some sort of natural entitlement.  Their young men are now angry over our ‘failure’ to provide for their wants.
The corralary to this is that they will not be grateful for the assistance if and when they get the assistance.  They already believe it's their natural right, and that the owed assistance is currently being wrongly withheld from them.
So, just keep that in mind going forward.  We go in to help them, whether under an American flag or an international flag, and they are not going to be grateful for the help.  That's not how it's gonna work.

Petes said...

I don't think there's the slightest chance of the US doing anything unilaterally, despite the Poop Leakers of the world jumping up and down about imperialism.

I don't think there's much chance of the UN agreeing to do anything either -- there's too many vested interests at play.

I don't think there's much chance of the people of Libya speaking with a united voice, or even the rebels, who may be now starting to realise that a) it's not going to be like it was with Ben Ali in Tunisia, b) without outside intevention Gaddafi is probably going to crush them, c) there's no cavalry charging over the hill to rescue them.

And let's face it -- the rebels are self-declared combatants, not civilians who could quite rightly claim protection under international law.

So, the bottom line message to the rebels ... you're fooked. Oh, and, don't bother bitchin' about the lack of help -- international law apparently says that nobody else is allowed to take an interest in your problems. We'll just keep buying the oil from whoever is selling it.

   Lee C.  ―  U.S.A.       said...

   
Correct spelling is ‘corollary’.

             ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
      "Lee imagines I'm talking about Americans in
      general, as opposed to him and Jeffrey being
      arseholes. No, Lee, I doubt if the Saudi royal
      family is reading your tripe on this blog.
"

You seem to have managed to get yourself seriously confused.

Truth Seeker said...

a) it's not going to be like it was with Ben Ali in Tunisia, b) without outside intevention Gaddafi is probably going to crush them, c) there's no cavalry charging over the hill to rescue them.

(a) It never was. Lybians aren't stupid. They know it.

(b) Ridiculous statement. History is littered with examples of people fighting against great odds and winning. The Cuban Revolution began with about ten people.

(c) They don't want rescue. They've said it time and again. When will you realise that they don't want imperialst meddling?

(d) Stick to computer programming. You obviously know very little about this stuff.

Petes said...

"(c) They don't want rescue. They've said it time and again. When will you realise that they don't want imperialst meddling?"

Some of them have said that. Some have said the opposite. When will you realise that you don't speak for them any more than I do.

(By the way, it's "Libyans", not "Lybians").

Truth Seeker said...

It's Truth Seeker, not Poop Leaker.

At least you seem to have the grace to concede on (a), (b), and (d).

Truth Seeker said...

Iraq has been illegally occupied for 2915 days, over 1.5 million innocents have been murdered and 5 million Iraqis have been displaced.

Those in the peace camp warned up this level of death, destruction, and chaos. We only wish we had been wrong.

Petes said...

"It's Truth Seeker, not Poop Leaker."

I don't know how you can say that with a straight nose.

"At least you seem to have the grace to concede on (a), (b), and (d)."

On (a) and (d), certainly.

(b) is a stupid statement (or displays ignorance of the concept of probability). History is littered with people winning the lottery, against all the odds -- every week, in fact. It doesn't mean YOU'RE likely to win it.

Btw, why is it so important to you that the Libyan rebels should be crushed under Gaddafi's boot sooner than get external help? Are you really that implacably hate-filled?

Petes said...

"Those in the peace camp warned up this level of death, destruction, and chaos. We only wish we had been wrong."

On the contrary, you seem to derive great glee from blaming all the death destruction and chaos on the wrong people.

Petes said...

Plus, you engage in a monstrous "disservice to truth":

http://www.iraqbodycount.org/analysis/beyond/exaggerated-orb/

Truth Seeker said...

I see my truth telling has annoyed you greatly. Good.

RhusLancia said...

An opinion piece from the beeb:

Libya crisis: no 'happy ending' for Colonel Gaddafi

Points to a long, drawn out civil war in Libya, as circumstances are arranged at the moment. Has a few interesting bits in it though, like:

Libya's second-largest state-owned oil company, the Arabian Gulf Oil Company, has announced plans to use oil sales to fund the opposition.

Didn't know that.

Petes said...

Yes, I always laugh out loud when I'm annoyed. You're a card.

JG said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Truth Seeker said...

You are not laughing. You are seething. You, sir, are a charlatan. You HAVE no shame!

Petes said...

LOLZ. Ok, er ... seethe, seethe. Uh, SEETHE.

Happy? :-)

Now, about that shame thing ... how come you're exaggerating the death toll in Iraq by 1,500%? Do you reckon if you exaggerate it enough it'll sounds so horrendous that nobody will dare question the other lie -- about who is responsible? Papa Saddam used to do that during the sanctions.

You, sir, are a liar.

"Truth My Hole", as I like to say.

Truth Seeker said...

Yes, Yes. Name calling does seem to be your specialist subject here. You try to denigrate those with whom you disagree.

In recent weeks I've posted links to articles and been called names for it.

It reflects so badly on you. It's vulgar.

Petes said...

If you actually want to debate, I'm happy to leave off the insults and take up the argument. It's just that very few people here are around for anything other than spreading propaganda. There's every indication that you're one of those, but it would certainly be refreshing if you were not.

If you're ready, let's start with you substantiating your figure of 1.5 million dead in Iraq.

Truth Seeker said...

You got a lotta nerve. More insults, saying I'm a propagandist now! And then saying you might halt the insults while demanding I address points you want addressed.

Not happening. What the hell are you doing awake at this time anyways?

Petes said...

Your claim at 4.14pm above that "1.5 million innocents have been murdered" is propaganda, and a lie. If you make claims you can't substantiate I'm going to call you on them. I am not demanding you address anything -- however, it will be plain to all here that you are a propagandist and a liar when you can't.

I am awake at this time because either a) I really work for the CIA and I'm in a US time zone, or b) I work a lot -- you didn't think I hung around here for the quality of the debate, did you?

Take your pick.

Petes said...

Well, I guess that's that then. Poop Leaker isn't coming back to defend his preposterous claims.

Truth Seeker said...

Everything I wrote is 100% correct, as I suspect you know. Although you probably have some unserious source ready should I jump to your call, which I surely will not.

Get back to me when you're genuinely ready to drop the insults.

b) I work a lot

That's not a reason to come here.

Truth Seeker said...

Well, I guess that's that then. Poop Leaker isn't coming back to defend his preposterous claims.

Uh. Sorry but I like to sleep at night. Hope that is okay with you.

Petes said...

"Everything I wrote is 100% correct, as I suspect you know."

Then you will have no problem providing a source for the claim of 1.5 million murders in Iraq. I'm still waiting.

Truth Seeker said...

Nope. It's too much fun watching you jumping up and down demanding it! ;-)

Lynnette In Minnesota said...

[Lee] I presume the question was intended to ask if they might be inviting us to interfere?

Oh, sorry. I was actually speaking to the rebels in the article, even though I knew they weren't here. It was kind of a rhetorical question in that sense.

Lynnette In Minnesota said...

[PeteS] No, Lee, I doubt if the Saudi royal family is reading your tripe on this blog.

Ahhhh, you just never know who might be reading this blog...

Petes said...

You could be right Lynnette. Certainly that's what the propagandists here hope.

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Petes said...

"Nope. It's too much fun watching you jumping up and down demanding it! ;-)"



lol. Oh yeah, 'cos it makes sense for me to be hopping up and down demanding something I know doesn't exist.

I just think it's a bit tragic that anyone would use such vile propaganda for who knows what evil ends.

But suit yourself. Others can make up their own minds how credible you look.

Truth Seeker said...

A lot more credible than somebody who stays up all night typing code into a computer I'd venture.

Petes said...

I've no idea why. But that's hardly the point. So far we have that you are enjoying my non-demands, and that lying through your arse is more credible than computer programming.

That is evidence for your vile and preposterous claims how, exactly? ... It's getting embarrassing watching you floundering.

Truth Seeker said...

lying through your arse

your vile and preposterous claims



Calm down! I've told you already I wouldn't even consider helping someone who trades in insult and vulgarity.

You're unfit to lick my boots, Pete$.

Petes said...

No evidence then? Ok. I believe I've wasted more than enough time on you. I will go back to treating you as the propagandist troll that you are.

Truth Seeker said...

More insults. Predictably touchy.

Truth Seeker said...

Petes: "You, sir, are a liar."

Hey don't call me a liar pal. This is what you do all the time and I'm not gonna sit here and take it!

Petes said...

^
Pathetic attention-seeking troll

Truth Seeker said...

^

Merchant of venom.

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